Sales People for China, Hong Kong and Taiwan

[michael8330]

Originally Posted by supercockanadoo

84 gunner. haha.. ya, indeed euro country is super expensive in tax.

I had been in & out of China for the past 10 yrs. I had seen how it grows and grows. From 10 yrs ago average salary of only Y500 to the present thousands of yuan.

For taxation, it depends on company. Large MNCs follow country policies strictly, that is fapiao cannot use to claim back tax for salary. It is expense claimable only through company expense system where company will not be taxed.

www.china-briefing.com can get quite a lot of info on this item and chinaexpat.com as well.

For taxation in China, not true 30% not taxable. The tax system for foreigners work in this way:
First Y4800 is non taxable. So if you earn say RMB10k, you only pay tax on RMB10k - RMB4.8k = RMB5.2k income earned.

So calculation for tax is like this lor:
(10k - 4.8k) * 0.2 (20%) - 375 = Y665 tax lor.
As the price move up the tax go crazier lor, e.g. If earn RMB50k, the tax will be:
(50k - 4.8k) * 0.3 - 3375 = 10185 tax lor, so you only got back RMB39,825

In singapore, for singaporeans, alot of tax deductibles to claim like CPF, etc. If you got kids, even best, maybe even no need to pay tax. For a bachelor who support parents, income of about SGD$120k a yr will only incur about S$6k - max $10k only lor. In china, siaoz liaoz... You ganna tax about S$2k/mth, so your tax in China will be about $24k/yr (RMB120k+) lor as can be seen from above example.

Computation of China taxation system is:

Total Remuneration (including allowances, etc that the company do not treat it as under the company expense claimables. YOu may be able to avoid tax by allowing company pay directly for apt, etc, then it is non-taxable)

Taxable Income Range
应税收入级距 (I) tax rate 税率 ( R) Quick Deduction 速算扣除数 (D)
I<=500 5% 0.00

500<I<=2,000 10% 25.00

2,000<I<=5,000 15% 125.00

5,000<I<=20,000 20% 375.00

20,000<I<=40,000 25% 1,375.00

40,000<I<=60,000 30% 3,375.00

60,000<I<=80,000 35% 6,375.00

80,000<I<=100,000 40% 10,375.00

I>100,000 45% 15,375.00

Tax Amount=I*R-D / 税款=应税收入×税率-速算扣除数

CPF money at the end still yours lor. You can use it for investment or housing and non-taxable in Sinagapore. But I agree with you on eventually where the money go as sillipore belong to the you know who empire la.

If you have commitments in singapore, then you will feel the pinch lor. If no commitment in singapore and really move over here for good to work and do business together and make it rich, then definitely here is better lor. With the cheaper cars, cheaper food, cheaper woman (Is this true? hehe.. not true le, as they are intelligent chicks le), etc.

I also agree with you, sillipore people as I can see from those that come over for business trips only really sometimes kiasi and also not flexible lor. Here you have to be damn creative and flexible to get things work. Never fight their govt bureacreacy and act proud. Use other ways and approach or get agents to do the work for you.

Best is get singapore salary and pay singapore tax, then send here many times for business trips but stay not exceeding 180 days per yr, like that no need to pay exhorbitant tax here. haha.. Or some people do traveling between HK and China to ensure 180 days limit lor.

ciaoz. Good hunting in China. I had been in Shanghai since early last yr.

thank bro, u are very detail

[SGPshanghai69]

Originally Posted by XuJiaHui

Hi Bro,

I am currently in Shanghai collecting Singapore Salary. I in and out china every 3-6 months. Do you mean I need to pay tax although I come for a biz trip? My company havent got any office in China. Please enlightened me. Thanks

Yo Bro Xujiahui,
I had the same experiences as you related here during my initial stage being sent here then by the ex-Sgporean firm I was working for .
As long as you're not drawing any wage in RMB here nor legally declared income here, especially with no company presence registered as you mentioned, it's very unlikely that you have to pay any taxes.

Rest assured on that. What really matters to you is the category of visa you are presently using to & fro to enter China bro........

Hope the info helps....cheers.

[supercockanadoo]

hi 84gunner,

Maybe one day we can chiong together. I agree with you totally on the policies in Sillipore. I am also not given a second chance by the sillipore govt. I studied in Bachelor in UK universities and masters in AU universities of almost similar reasons like you. We have to fight for our second or third or whatever chances we have in our lifes. The sillipore govt is always talking cock one. I have a father that needs to go for dialysis. Fortunately after the NKF system, my pay together with my bro pay in aussie is not considered out of range for subsidy. Last time, even if your household pay is >SGD$4000 with 2 kids, a non-working wife, nabei NKF also give you no subsidy. Now diff, even if household pay is high, not as high like maybe $15k or $20k?? divide by maybe 5 or more people, new applicants for NKF can still got subsidy, only little la, but better than nothing. But they also still charge medicine fees.

Sillipore talk cock alot. But got commitment in singapore is indeed difficult. Best is HK tax system, 15% flat tax, first HK$100k non taxable, no matter how much you earn.

I am mid 30s. The govt and MP also talk cock one. Last time 8 yrs ago, I married PRC, pay low, earn less than $2k, wife no PR, cannot work, cannot get PR because my pay low. CBKNNB govt, also no give PR for at least maybe 3 yrs until my pay go up to $4k than give. That is history already. Even my wife during that time got EP, also lan lan. Even though she got degree, can find work but cannot work, that's how the govt talk cock alot lor.

That's why I say, the govt policy of accepting foreigners may also be a conspiracy. Silliporeans not happy with govt leave the country or vote against them (not many), then they have to win more votes, convert the foreigners say them talent. FOreigners become silliporeans, scare of govt because new, vote them lor. Like that, they also got additional votes from those new immigrants who may not care because they enjoy it here as compared to their local country citizenships which their govt is even worse lor. haha.. That's what I always think, conspiracy pay & pay theories.

[supercockanadoo]

oh yeah, also there is a saying, the sillpore govt is so expert in election that they can do vote buying openly. How? By giving money to silliporeans in every GE lor, make up some reasons to openly buy vote lor. haha..

So I think, actually do silliporeans have a brain or not? Or maybe sillporeans think too much of their own self interest liaoz. But at the end of the day, right pocket give you, left hand take back from you to put back to left pocket lor. hahah..

That's what they do best.

[XuJiaHui]

Originally Posted by SGPshanghai69

Yo Bro Xujiahui,
I had the same experiences as you related here during my initial stage being sent here then by the ex-Sgporean firm I was working for .
As long as you're not drawing any wage in RMB here nor legally declared income here, especially with no company presence registered as you mentioned, it's very unlikely that you have to pay any taxes.

Rest assured on that. What really matters to you is the category of visa you are presently using to & fro to enter China bro........

Hope the info helps....cheers.

I got a F Type Business Visa here. Multiple entry Half a year. Any problem with that? I wont get caught rite? Really scared that as I dun own the company , no point risk my life .. haha

[84gunner]

Originally Posted by Mekatulia

Bro,
Just to put my 2 cents worth on banking system...
.
.
.
I have met a few fellow SGreans like me, struggling and trying to make it out there, but then again, many are just comfortable with the safety net provided by the SG gov. Not only that, I am only basing this on my own observations, I just find SGreans are more likely to pit against themselves in not only local space, but foreign space and cyber space as well, which is quite sad.

thanx bro, for shedding more light on the banking systems. the info is interesting to know.

this shows sgp is simply super kiasi. thru the Internet Banking overseas transfer instruction, you will NOT be able to successfully submit the instruction if u do not have the sufficient balance in your "transfer from" account. As simple as that.

b4 u submit the instruction, u may choose to remit HKD, or buy the foreign currencies available with the bank. if u send money to a bank in sgp, the sgp account is normally a SGD account (unless u opened or specified the bank account currency to be some other currency, then it may be a different story), it will auto convert HKD to SGD, at sgp bank's exchange rate. then the sgp bank will charge u a conversion fee of $20. this oso applies to many banks in other countries whose currencies are NOT restricted (the conversion fee varies). If u buy foreign currency, eg buy 10k SGD, then the amount u receive in the sgp bank account will be 10k SGD nett. the exchange rate will be based on HK bank's exchange rate, probably at the bank's processing time (1600 hr HK time). so far, I find HK bank's exchange rate is better than sgp bank. u can view the estimated exchange rate, at the overseas transfer instruction page, which I believe they mark-up abit, in case HKD drops against the target currency you are buying (if the exchange rate is to your favor, or better than u expected, u will be happy & wont kpkb, rite?). the moment your instruction is submitted successfully, the amount you are remitting from the "transfer from" account balance is blocked immediately. for all these, hk bank charge a nett fee of 100 HKD. no other conversion fee or whatever other fee. whether I remit SGD, HKD or any other currency, hk bank charge me only the transaction fee of 100 HKD flat.

the default remittance limit per account per day is 50k HKD, but u may apply with the bank to increase this limit to 500k or even 1mill HKD. whether u remit 1mill or 10k HKD, the transaction fee is still 100 HKD nett. so I normally buy SGD or other foreign currencies with hk bank, then remit to the overseas receiving bank account, so no need to kena charge currency conversion fee at receiving bank.

oh yes, i remembered a few frens working in ZhongShan & ZhuHai, their company use Macau for administering their salaries & tax. they only declare a small portion of their salary in PRC. Macau is a tax-free region. I think the company oso use Mauritius as another base for such administration of employees in other countries / regions, cos Mauritius is oso a tax-free region (not sure if I remember correctly, whether it's Maritius or another region).

so brudders doing businesses can consider these tax / financial administration options to save on tax payment, then got more $$$ for cheonging!! brudders who managed to save some $$ outta these administrations, remember to buy me a drink when we meet up!

in general, i would say sporeans no guts + not united enuf. if got enuf guts + united enuf, the unhappy folks would've gone on demonstrations to ask the current govt to change things or step down. look at taiwan. look at how some govt or presidents in philippines & indonesia stepped down or overthrown by the unhappy people. yes, the demonstrations may be chaotic, disruptive to businesses, but they managed to achieve their objective (many times), rite? for the affected businesses, they can take it as having a break: 休息一下，是准备走更长的路。

my fren's platoon during army days, kena a new chiak kan tang PC, veli lau lan. happen tat most of them in the platoon r hokkien peng, many are pai kia, outside play numbers one. they all very united, whole platoon defy his orders etc, like mutiny lidat. 1 fine evening, give PC blanket party until jialat jialat. all available brooms, mops, etc, whack until broken. PC hospitalised dunno how long, but they never see PC again. the whole platoon tell OC & CO, the whole platoon is responsible. the whole platoon is prepared to kena charged, go DB!!! end up no one in platoon kena charge, whole platoon kena scolding, confinement + defaulters parade.

as far as i m concerned, unhappy with something, take action to change it. sit there kpkb, no action no use one, the problem still there, u will still be unhappy. if u take action oredi still cant change, at least u tried to do something oredi, u can answer honestly 2 urself, rather than NATO.

sporeans live much more comfortable life than many people in neighbouring countries. ask them do something, they scared lose this, scared lose that. dare not take risk to lose comfort zone. this is similar to business world. no risk, no venture. u risk your comfort to work hard / fight for something, if u succeed, u have more comfortable enjoyable life. if u lose, u lose your comfort lor. juz like business, if successful, u make more $$ / expand business, if not successful, u lose $$ lor.

probably i had lost so much, the only thing left for me to lose was my life, so i dun care anything else oredi. whether i die in sgp or overseas, i still die, not much difference. but if i am successful, the sky's the limit. there was no comfort zone for me. I carry the attitude 舍命陪君子, i am prepared to stake my life on it / the situations. i guess it is some kinda psychology, when the other party sense it, they are sorta afraid of you, or they dun dare play such high stakes, you oredi win half the battle. it is normal human psychology not to fight a battle / situation they dun have good confidence to win, if they have other choices. if no other choice, it's either they fight, or they die. fight, still got abit chance, dun fight, totally no chance.

dunno why fight each other. then when kena foreigners / outsiders, they dare to fight against them anot? only know how to bully weak / own people no use one. 欺善怕恶？kwai lan, fierce, bully own people at home no use one. the hero is the one who strike fear on the streets outside!

[shengge]

Originally Posted by hcmanic

I worked in China and declared only Y8000/month and my tax is only Y375 taxed paid by my company, the rest of my spore salary I do not have to pay tax in Spore but you MUST apply for it to be exempted.

Hi,
When my friend inquire at the IRAS, they said no questions ask, so long as you have doc proof that you are overseas more than 180/365 days. However, IRAS replied asking for doc proof of income tax paid in China.
1) Did you do the same?
2) Will there be any problem as you under declare your tax in China?

Cheers!

[jetli]

Originally Posted by Sinoview

Talking about Taxi fare.

Damn it Shen Zhen taxi is the most expensive in the whole of china....starting at 12.50rmb and increase to 16 rmb after 2300.

Nb...probably due to the Hkeys .

Well, in Japan, the taxi fare is far worse. Some taxi start at 660 or 650 yen and increase at the rate of 80 yen (which is $1 SGD = $70 JPY) after 274 meters. After midnight, the fare increase even faster and even more expensive. I once took a taxi ride after midnight, the whole trip cost me more than $10,000 JPY. I couldn't took my eyes off the meter.

[Mekatulia]

Originally Posted by 84gunner

thanx bro, for shedding more light on the banking systems. the info is interesting to know...

in general, i would say sporeans no guts + not united enuf. if got enuf guts + united enuf, the unhappy folks would've gone on demonstrations to ask the current govt to change things or step down...

dunno why fight each other. then when kena foreigners / outsiders, they dare to fight against them anot? ...!

Bro,

Another thing about banks, to be fair, looking from the side of business, banks have to make money in order to pay interest right? And how they do it is mostly through loans. In any country, what kind of loans are relatively lowest risk? Definitely not personal or commercial loans, but housing mortage! So it comes back to the same thing, most of the houses in SG is HDB, subject to "managed" prices, and the private property has to be within the acceptable range, otherwise it will be deemed to be of inferior quality to HDB? If just to compare to HK, even if both places have the same price per area, which one would be a more "honest" reflection of the market demand? Having saying that, I am not saying for those who own houses in SG are owing worthless bricks, I would still say given that condition doesn't change, generally the value of their capital in SG is very much preserved.

With regards to SGreans being kia see, I am not bashing my fellow country men, but we have to seriously do some self reflection. I have seen, with my own eyes, that a fellow SGrean is down and out in a foreign land, ok, despite any personal differences, when it comes to a true business opportunity, shouldn't we come together and fully explore the potential? No, this is not the case, I see that some people try to discredit the other over petty issues and traded petty insults and exchanges? Fellow SGreans trying to cheat/fleece their own fellow countrymen. While on the other hand, I have seen taiwanese, despite their individual differences, when it comes to a business opportunity, they get together and try as best as they can make it profitable for themselves.

I have to add that perhaps my examples are very much isolated case, I just hope to put through my own observations and to let the individuals reflect upon themselves.

[84gunner]

Originally Posted by shengge

Hi,
When my friend inquire at the IRAS, they said no questions ask, so long as you have doc proof that you are overseas more than 180/365 days. However, IRAS replied asking for doc proof of income tax paid in China.
1) Did you do the same?
2) Will there be any problem as you under declare your tax in China?

Cheers!

hey, different answer I got from IRAS. I called the general hotline to enquire:

you only need to declare whatever salary earned (paid) in singapore; salary / allowances paid overseas, into your overseas bank account, dunnit to declare. I dont think the 180 or 183 / 365 days guideline applies to singaporeans. as long as you got salary even 1 / 365 days, you gotta declare. whether they tax you anot is another matter.

from then, I dont bother anymore, I declare $0 every year, cos 100% of my pay is overseas. no cpf oso. worse comes to worst, I say I jobless lor, they oso bo pian. as long as no document, no cpf, no evidence at all, there is nothing they can do. so far, iras oso never ask me for any overseas income documents. they cant touch your assets overseas (except maybe msia). some more, the world so big, how they know which country u have assets, where & what assets?

why u so "straight", guai guai submit the documents even when not requested? then give opportunity for the govt to spot your "mischief" (under-declaring income, not paying enuf tax, etc).

u cant be so "straight & honest" in china, otherwise, u will kena "eaten" big time in the business world!!!

[rickytay]

Originally Posted by hcmanic

Guys,

I worked in China and declared only Y8000/month and my tax is only Y375 taxed paid by my company, the rest of my spore salary I do not have to pay tax in Spore but you MUST apply for it to be exempted.

Yes, the higher you are paid, the more tax you will need to pay. Pay in HK bank is a good option.

Cheers...

Hey man,

I only declared RMB 4000/mth and no tax, the rest of the salary paid thru HK bank account.

Cheers....

[Ronaldo]

During my time in China, I took an allowance in China which is about RMB4000, the rest in SG.. And overall I had a low pay as compared to my peers. But when my IRA8 came, I have to pay 0 tax and I am guessing my pay is too low.

But someone did tell me that you only have to pay tax in one country thus you might be exempted from the SG tax if you pay in China.

The ruling in China is always changing so our feedbacks from different parts of China might differ. So those bros reading this, check with your local agent. (hmm.. like some commercial)

[84gunner]

Originally Posted by Mekatulia

Bro,
With regards to SGreans being kia see, I am not bashing my fellow country men, but we have to seriously do some self reflection. I have seen, with my own eyes, that a fellow SGrean is down and out in a foreign land, ok, despite any personal differences, when it comes to a true business opportunity, shouldn't we come together and fully explore the potential? No, this is not the case, I see that some people try to discredit the other over petty issues and traded petty insults and exchanges? Fellow SGreans trying to cheat/fleece their own fellow countrymen. While on the other hand, I have seen taiwanese, despite their individual differences, when it comes to a business opportunity, they get together and try as best as they can make it profitable for themselves...

i oso seen a sporean ex-colleague, super-"straight" until I giving up helping him. technical skills, he's juz ordinary. doesnt socialise much, the typical spore IT guys who dun smoke, dun go pubbing / KTV, etc. after work, guai guai go home be with wife. nothing wrong with that, not that I am encouraging people to do otherwise.

imagine, he can ask question like, if we bring client to KTV, client like the gal, wanna bring the gal back for bonking, can I dun get a gal for myself to bonk, so client wont end up alone in bringing gal back for bonking? lucky, he ask this question in front of me & another new manager (local chinese) who just join us. in fact, it was that manager's 1st day, and I buying small lunch to welcome him. we both really shocked & looked at each other with his question!

his director (HK guy) oso told him off, dun "sit in a corner" everyday. he can answer back some more, my seat is in the middle of the office wat, I am not sitting in a corner! I guess his director oso "faint". anyway, he kena ask to leave the company 6 months after that.

he ask me to help him search for a job b4 he kena asked to leave. he can feel his days are numbered. i tried to arrange for him to meet up head hunter for dinner / drinks (get to know people 1st, then informally discuss mah, since not urgent, looking out for opportunities only), he ask me represent him! knn. when he formally kena ask to leave, he gan cheong liao, then ask me arrange dinner + drinks with head hunter. But head hunter busy for that few weeks, cant meet oredi.

till today, i still havent got his CV. he say CV is something v private & personal. he said juz refer him to contacts (head hunters or managers in well-known companies) with good reputation or good size company, dowan kucheng kurak company, never heard b4 one. his job hunting style is read newspapers ads, then call up or go door-to-door knocking!!! knn, apply for Senior Consultant position job hunting this way? his wife oso looking for job in similar way.

advised him he cant do this way, he dun listen. he say dowan pass CV to unknown people, dowan consider small or unknown companies, etc. so minus this, minus that, end up with nothing. he stranded jobless in china for more than 1 year! but both husband & wife dowan go back spore, cos they dun like spore environment. but they ok lah, both sides parents got quite some $$$ to help them.

knn, look at this type of personality & mentality lor:
dowan consider small / unheard of company, dowan pass CV to head hunters (not even to me, when he wan me to help!), dun socialise, buy things never bargain price, etc. then kpkb every day, say locals can tell from his accent that he is foreigner / sporean, take advantage, blah blah blah, etc.

simply cant get outta comfort zone & spore way of life / doing things.

[supercockanadoo]

aiyo.. really abit extreme for your friend. siaoz one.

As for the taxation issues, Singapore govt has double taxation agreement with many countries, including China/HK. All singaporeans are considered tax resident in Singapore. However, if the tax in the country that you work is higher than singapore and has double taxation agreement with singapore, you only need to pay the higher tax in the host country and no need to pay tax in singapore.

If you have income paid in singapore and singapore govt don't know about it, your company no issue you IR8A, you no declare, you no ganna caught, then lucky for you. Because all income earned in singapore is taxable for singaporeans/PR.

For companies that practice paying dual pay in singapore and china, good luck to you, don't let the china govt find out, because they will definitely find trouble with you if you ganna caught. Because the policy stated very clearly that if you work in China more than 183 days a yr or work for a local China entity, you will need to pay China tax for income earned in China and overseas. And the practice of having double pay (lower in China, higher elseware) is not encouraged and illegal under chinese law. So keep your fingers crossed, don't brag and stay low on salary matters with your fellow colleagues, you may never know who stab you at the back.

Good luck everybody in China and happy hunting.

[just4fun]

Originally Posted by 84gunner

probably i had lost so much, the only thing left for me to lose was my life, so i dun care anything else oredi. whether i die in sgp or overseas, i still die, not much difference. but if i am successful, the sky's the limit. there was no comfort zone for me. I carry the attitude 舍命陪君子, i am prepared to stake my life on it / the situations. i guess it is some kinda psychology, when the other party sense it, they are sorta afraid of you, or they dun dare play such high stakes, you oredi win half the battle. it is normal human psychology not to fight a battle / situation they dun have good confidence to win, if they have other choices. if no other choice, it's either they fight, or they die. fight, still got abit chance, dun fight, totally no chance.

I also have the similar mentality as u but maybe u r more heong than I do...