Middle class Singaporean no more.....Sigh

[lasupkia]

>$10k and still can complain.
Worst of all is grumble about supporting your own parents.
你的良心被狗吃了。

[DemonicSS]

Talk to your siblings to share the costs of your parents maintenance. That will help to lessen the burden.

Next suggestion I will give you unfortunately is to bail out of this country. There is really no point being here when you are not earning sufficiently. if you cannot turn the tide, then move.

[ahpui123123]

Moral of the story is not to let your daughter volunteer in an old folks home.

[leakypipes]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Bros,
Don't know if you feel it. I am beginning to feel like I am not even in the middle class in our country any more. Wife and me working. We earn average incomes. Combined >$10k a month. But young kids in school. Expenses super high.

My car is 9 years old. Went looking for cars and even a small korean car cost >$100k. Want to get a bigger flat because kids are growing. But prices are ridiculously high. Last time can afford to eat chilli crab once in a while. Now crab is $65 a kilo. Cannot afford to eat anymore. Durian price also gone crazy. If eat out, little bit here and there also cost $50-$100. The $50 bills in my wallet use very fast....maciam flow out like water.

Getting old. Tired of this impossible rat race. You feeling the pinch to?

What you want in life bro? Almost 10k combined income is what some ppl dream of. My father was a single parent since 1994. Raise 3 teenage kids. 2 only got o level. Still can get married and have kids n buy own place. That's my siblings. I think their household income lower than yours.

As for me, well, let's say I went a bit further in my studies than my siblings. And I support my father by giving him $1k plus monthly plus I cover his medical costs. I also support my siblings occasionally. Not say I Hao lian, but I worked damn fucking hard to earn my money. And I'm grateful for every cent I make. Even got money to bonk.

Sometimes its about accepting what your reality is. If you don't like it, then you have to know what you have to do to change it, and do it.

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by lasupkia

>$10k and still can complain.
Worst of all is grumble about supporting your own parents.
你的良心被狗吃了。

I think you are taking this the wrong way.

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by leakypipes

What you want in life bro? Almost 10k combined income is what some ppl dream of. My father was a single parent since 1994. Raise 3 teenage kids. 2 only got o level. Still can get married and have kids n buy own place. That's my siblings. I think their household income lower than yours.

As for me, well, let's say I went a bit further in my studies than my siblings. And I support my father by giving him $1k plus monthly plus I cover his medical costs. I also support my siblings occasionally. Not say I Hao lian, but I worked damn fucking hard to earn my money. And I'm grateful for every cent I make. Even got money to bonk.

Sometimes its about accepting what your reality is. If you don't like it, then you have to know what you have to do to change it, and do it.

Imho, its not the income earned. Its the expenditure. Per person per household. I just wondered if I am the only one vexed with rising costs. Giving to parents done long time ago. Now its full scale living with me. Btw, its more than $1k a month. Add on the kids. Can be quite a strain. You have kids, bro?

[justdifferent]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Imho, its not the income earned. Its the expenditure. Per person per household. I just wondered if I am the only one vexed with rising costs. Giving to parents done long time ago. Now its full scale living with me. Btw, its more than $1k a month. Add on the kids. Can be quite a strain. You have kids, bro?

Well, what I feel is that the generation nowadays get used to living a luxurious lifestyle from the moment they graduate. (and yes this is my generation)

I have friends whom, upon graduation got scouted and have a starting pay of about 7k a month. Back in uni, all were struggling on parent's allowance aside from those who were part-timing while they were studying. All of a sudden, after graduation, 7k a month. I wouldn't say the work is easy, but the huge jump from allowance that might not even be 1k a month to 7k seems a bit too much.

'Fast come, fast go'. My friend who was in such a situation started living the high life. He also bought a 3 series, which till now he is paying through his teeth for.

In the end, it's all about the kind of lifestyle you want to live. Not too long ago he was fine with having a casual dinner at maxwell, nowadays he tells me that we should eat at somewhere 'proper' like Lolla's or Esquina's and the like. I recently found out that he has been chasing credit card bills and just barely managing to settle his bills from month-to-month.

7k a month, even after deducting cpf, plus he is single and does not have to support his parents. You could say this guy is crazy, but having been in his shoes at some point of time, I know how easy it is to spend more than 5k a month just by drinking, eating a nice places, etc.

What it is about is managing expectations and living within your means. Is showing off really that important? Is having a car a necessity? My closest buddy recently got a bonus of more than 1 year. He earns about 6k a month probably. His bonus alone is coming close to 100k. Yet when we were heading to buy watches together the other day, he puts in a lot of thought into something that is 3k+. While he is not a miser, he knows how to appropriate money properly. To him, it would be more worth it to invest even that 3k into something which gives him returns, rather than having a physical object that is used more for showing off than for telling time.

The 2 stories that I've shared are at complete ends of the spectrum.

I do not have children, neither am I married. My sister, however, is married and has 3 kids. Therefore, I am well aware of the costs involved in raising kids and supporting parents. I have to say that it is really not easy. However, by living within your means, I don't think it is impossible. It is not even difficult, it's just about your lifestyle choices.

Have you actually budgeted out your expenditure on paper? Have you looked at ways in which you could reduce your expenditure in areas that you might be spending too much on? If your job does not need a car, then why do you need it? Having young kids and old parents is not really an excuse for a car, it is a luxury and we both know it.

You claim to be struggling with living expenses, yet when you want to replace your car, you are looking at korean cars that are >100k.. first hand? the first few years have the greatest depreciation, are you sure that you can comfortably tank this depreciation?

Doesn't this ring some warning bells about the lifestyle you want? You are someone who is in a middle-income family, but you want to live a mid-high income lifestyle.

I know it gets frustrating when costs of living are high, and you constantly need to pay bills, expenditure for your children, etc. etc. But have you taken time out to do some proper budgeting?

Just one example is your car. Ask yourself if you really need it. If you do, by all means. If you know that deep down inside you don't but you want to, then there you have your answer. I have my own car as well and I might not have the right to chastise you on this subject, but we are different in the sense that I don't have to provide for my family.

I come from a family who is financially ok, and while I do give my parents money every month, I do not have any other commitments. Based on what I earn and what I need to spend, I calculated that it is a luxury that I can afford. Mine is also at the 9 year mark, and I'm considering if I should get another one next year or give it up completely. Granted, I don't drive that often. I don't like to drive to work as parking is a bitch at my workplace, the MRT is 3 stops away and the time to get to office is the same regardless of whether I drive or take the train. However, if I drive I need to pay for seasonal parking, petrol, etc.

Some of my colleagues say that I am crazy to own a car and not drive it work. I just don't see the point - unless I want to show off? Then again, whats the point of showing off a normal jap car? And the people who are impressed by this, are they really people I wanna associate myself with?

But let me wrap up by going back to the point. I understand that you have several members of your family to provide for.. which makes that 10k seem measly. Have you considered that you need to downgrade your lifestyle slightly? If not, you would be living paycheck-to-paycheck and that's not a good idea. Talk to your family and tell them that although you guys do earn a decent income, there are many people you have to take care of in the family, and therefore you need to cut down on expenses and lifestyle to maintain.

Live a life which is within your means, with cash leftover so that you can invest it. Even if it means eating at hawker centres and taking public transport, it is not that bad a thing isn't it? Perhaps you expect to live a more comfortable life with the money you earn. However if that's not a possibility because of your family, your flesh and blood, then so be it. Suck it up, lower your expenses and invest whatever you can. I believe at some point of time you will not just be chasing the next month's salary.

Good luck to you.

[Showmeyourmoney]

Originally Posted by ludwig19

So by voting 'wisely', the cost of chilli crab will come down and i suddenly can stay in a nice condo instead of my pigsty of a 5rm flat? Haha 😛

No I won't. But u do wan a better life for other next generation (ur kids) don't ya?

[WhoIsDat]

Originally Posted by leakypipes

What you want in life bro? Almost 10k combined income is what some ppl dream of. My father was a single parent since 1994. Raise 3 teenage kids. 2 only got o level. Still can get married and have kids n buy own place. That's my siblings. I think their household income lower than yours.

As for me, well, let's say I went a bit further in my studies than my siblings. And I support my father by giving him $1k plus monthly plus I cover his medical costs. I also support my siblings occasionally. Not say I Hao lian, but I worked damn fucking hard to earn my money. And I'm grateful for every cent I make. Even got money to bonk.

Sometimes its about accepting what your reality is. If you don't like it, then you have to know what you have to do to change it, and do it.

Well said bro. Alot of Singaporeans keeps complaining about what they do not have or yearn to have. A car, a bigger flat, Chilli Crab etc, however they fail to see what they have in the first place.

Like what Jordan Belfort used to say " The only thing that stops us from getting the things that we want, are the bullshit reasons we give ourselves"

If u don't like something, change it. Earn more money. Open up a business, dunno how, ask people who have business. Just my 2 cents worth

[Edisonchan]

TS.... I totally understand your situation..... Me too is facing problem like u and trying hard to improve my lifestyle.

Ppl here dun really understand what oversea (1st world country) countries can offer when we are earning the same amount of money here & there, and they are here trying to lecture you. I'm preparing to shift out of Sg with my family, and let saints here continue working freaking hard to earn more money trying to catch up with garment increasing living standard..... it insane and you will end up losing quality time with your family, which I think they dun care.

If I drive, it took me 15-20mins to reach my office but it will take me 2 hours when i'm not driving thus taking public transport.... Going out taking bus & MRT with old parents & small kids..... let the saints here try out and then comment, but to me I think car is a need. Mine is also 9 yrs +, we are planning to rent rather than buy after 2016. What I can say is we have been deprive from a lot of things as a Singaporean from LKY time to current LSL, I no longer feel privilege as a citizen here but have to give way to rich foreigners in my own soil.

[deceptive99]

I think its all about tweaking your lifestyle to how much you earn.

Live life humbly.

[Yoonachio]

TS, your combined income is not really your "income". The amount u save is.

Try to list down your expenses and see what can be cut down, like weekly fine dining to monthly, entertainment cost, change to 2nd hand car etc...

If you spend 9k per month, sure you cant save money.

[godsfury]

Voting WP will make your life better? U mean they duwan u pay taxes? Kick out ft? Increase our salaries? Everyone will get a car? No erp? Lolol

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by justdifferent

Well, what I feel is that the generation nowadays get used to living a luxurious lifestyle from the moment they graduate. (and yes this is my generation)

I have friends whom, upon graduation got scouted and have a starting pay of about 7k a month. Back in uni, all were struggling on parent's allowance aside from those who were part-timing while they were studying. All of a sudden, after graduation, 7k a month. I wouldn't say the work is easy, but the huge jump from allowance that might not even be 1k a month to 7k seems a bit too much.

'Fast come, fast go'. My friend who was in such a situation started living the high life. He also bought a 3 series, which till now he is paying through his teeth for.

In the end, it's all about the kind of lifestyle you want to live. Not too long ago he was fine with having a casual dinner at maxwell, nowadays he tells me that we should eat at somewhere 'proper' like Lolla's or Esquina's and the like. I recently found out that he has been chasing credit card bills and just barely managing to settle his bills from month-to-month.

7k a month, even after deducting cpf, plus he is single and does not have to support his parents. You could say this guy is crazy, but having been in his shoes at some point of time, I know how easy it is to spend more than 5k a month just by drinking, eating a nice places, etc.

What it is about is managing expectations and living within your means. Is showing off really that important? Is having a car a necessity? My closest buddy recently got a bonus of more than 1 year. He earns about 6k a month probably. His bonus alone is coming close to 100k. Yet when we were heading to buy watches together the other day, he puts in a lot of thought into something that is 3k+. While he is not a miser, he knows how to appropriate money properly. To him, it would be more worth it to invest even that 3k into something which gives him returns, rather than having a physical object that is used more for showing off than for telling time.

The 2 stories that I've shared are at complete ends of the spectrum.

I do not have children, neither am I married. My sister, however, is married and has 3 kids. Therefore, I am well aware of the costs involved in raising kids and supporting parents. I have to say that it is really not easy. However, by living within your means, I don't think it is impossible. It is not even difficult, it's just about your lifestyle choices.

Have you actually budgeted out your expenditure on paper? Have you looked at ways in which you could reduce your expenditure in areas that you might be spending too much on? If your job does not need a car, then why do you need it? Having young kids and old parents is not really an excuse for a car, it is a luxury and we both know it.

You claim to be struggling with living expenses, yet when you want to replace your car, you are looking at korean cars that are >100k.. first hand? the first few years have the greatest depreciation, are you sure that you can comfortably tank this depreciation?

Doesn't this ring some warning bells about the lifestyle you want? You are someone who is in a middle-income family, but you want to live a mid-high income lifestyle.

I know it gets frustrating when costs of living are high, and you constantly need to pay bills, expenditure for your children, etc. etc. But have you taken time out to do some proper budgeting?

Just one example is your car. Ask yourself if you really need it. If you do, by all means. If you know that deep down inside you don't but you want to, then there you have your answer. I have my own car as well and I might not have the right to chastise you on this subject, but we are different in the sense that I don't have to provide for my family.

I come from a family who is financially ok, and while I do give my parents money every month, I do not have any other commitments. Based on what I earn and what I need to spend, I calculated that it is a luxury that I can afford. Mine is also at the 9 year mark, and I'm considering if I should get another one next year or give it up completely. Granted, I don't drive that often. I don't like to drive to work as parking is a bitch at my workplace, the MRT is 3 stops away and the time to get to office is the same regardless of whether I drive or take the train. However, if I drive I need to pay for seasonal parking, petrol, etc.

Some of my colleagues say that I am crazy to own a car and not drive it work. I just don't see the point - unless I want to show off? Then again, whats the point of showing off a normal jap car? And the people who are impressed by this, are they really people I wanna associate myself with?

But let me wrap up by going back to the point. I understand that you have several members of your family to provide for.. which makes that 10k seem measly. Have you considered that you need to downgrade your lifestyle slightly? If not, you would be living paycheck-to-paycheck and that's not a good idea. Talk to your family and tell them that although you guys do earn a decent income, there are many people you have to take care of in the family, and therefore you need to cut down on expenses and lifestyle to maintain.

Live a life which is within your means, with cash leftover so that you can invest it. Even if it means eating at hawker centres and taking public transport, it is not that bad a thing isn't it? Perhaps you expect to live a more comfortable life with the money you earn. However if that's not a possibility because of your family, your flesh and blood, then so be it. Suck it up, lower your expenses and invest whatever you can. I believe at some point of time you will not just be chasing the next month's salary.

Good luck to you.

Bro, thanks for taking the time to write. Enjoyed your counsel. A few things. I need a car for both work and family. I tried dragging 3 young kids in strollers along MRTs. Really quite un-doable. Those with a child will understand. Try 3. When you have kids, you may understand. Cars become a need, not a want. My parents are old. I want to bring them out once in a while. Plus the frequent trips to the hospital. Have you tried pushing a wheel chair bound person around in public transport? You may, one day.

Many mistake my post. My laments are about being pushed off the middle class. Not about going into abject poverty. Of course I know what to cut should it reach such a stage. The point I was making is whereas once upon a time (not too long ago) I could afford some things, now I find them out of reach. Come on, be fair. Not too long ago, it was common sightings to see people enjoying an occasional chilli crab at a kopi tiam. Now, I seldom see it.

I have yet to hear from bros with kids and elderly parents. Views please?

[freezetheDB]

its about spending within your means i guess
no money dont chiong

for me i even cut down on my favourite massages, sometimes money earn so hard, rather buy something for my wifey, or my parents.