Orgies/Swinging/Fuck-Buddies/Sugar-Daddies? It's all here! Organising a gang bang or a Swinging Session? Need a Fuck Buddy? Finances screwed and you need a Sugar Daddy? Want something special to spice up your Sex Life? Post your messages here. It could change your world forever!
Thousand of brothers have been loved by our girls. Now it's YOUR turn!
23-07-2018, 11:19 PM
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
+15 points for exchange. minimum 5 pointers. PM for faster return.
+15 points for exchange. minimum 5 pointers. PM for faster return.
24-07-2018, 01:38 AM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
up for pts exchange, all are welcome...
no queue, fast return...
24-07-2018, 08:43 AM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Seeking for those ONLY WITH rep points of 8 and above for exchange for now . Thank you .
Current outstanding list owing :
木头和尚敲木鱼 ( return - 23.07.18)
Madpig ( return - 21.07.18 )
Gilacow ( return - 16.07.18 )
Taramis ( return - 12,07.18 )
Nanom ( return - 10.07.18 )
BrillantKnight ( return - 09.07.18 )
Skycarpenter ( return - 08.07.18 )
shawnwhite ( return - 04.07.18 )
exactmatxpeed ( return - 01.07.18 )
P.S. If I miss out anyone do please pm me .
__________________
Be kind to one another and the world will be a better place to live in .
24-07-2018, 01:21 PM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Priority To Clear KIV Samster Daily
Pls PM Me For Instant Points Return
Today: Sanuuk & dogchicken
Last edited by hccheonger; 24-07-2018 at 02:20 PM .
24-07-2018, 03:09 PM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Anyone up for exchange?
Bro Slide2despair, Spikerman, Tailok, Amplus, weiwe, Tele, badboys, lost99, skyscrape, Ssamuel, Jonathansiv, samlomo, sams1
No latest post to return. Please pm me.
Appreciate the pm if you do upz me. easier for me to monitor
Pending: Nil
Pending 2nd Round: Goalie, retepoet, botakhead
__________________
The more you learn, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you forget.
The more you forget, the less you know.
So.. why learn?
24-07-2018, 03:58 PM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
19 green apples returned to diputs1269 today
Another 19 green apples available for exchange today.
Green apples will be return daily.
The queue is empty so do join in the queue if you are interested.
Thank you
Note: Priority will be given to bros with the HIGHEST POWER.
Next To Up List: 35cents (+12)
New Post Required KIV List: brad (+18), simb1 (+15), edvil (+13), exactmatxspeed (+10), pixated (+7), SuperbLoverBoy (+5), plantronic (+4)
Pending for 2nd round up: MarlboroKen (+51), siam66 (+30), justl00king (+20), meatvegelove (+20), Hurricane88 (+19), SureScore (+17), Rasta Marley (+17), loneyheart (+14), Arse-nal (+13), TingTongLove (+13), smoky7 (+12), devilchan78 (+12), Supervert (+12), Cafu (+12), Goalie (+11), S.B.Y.1 (+11), sailsingapore (+11), bigbirdbird (+11), randily (+11), CoCK ShoCk (+10), SimplyUnperfect (+8), ClownTeaser (+6)
Already Up List: ( Click to show/hide ) Lamborghini, Hurricane88 , SureScore , Redapple26, simple2kee, sgiceboy, Naka_Timo, Cumexplorer, justl00king , Kalv, Nato17, xxxdreamer, waikeekee, submarinez, sex crusader, xlao, loneyheart , kyc2110, Apollo, mobliepod, Goalie , PPGirl, Rickey, sam30sg, nitecrawllerr, marlboroken, justfuckit, qizai, songest, lookingaround, NorthEast, compgen, ah rat, smartke, formula1, ShaolinHamster, clinton, wittyman, venussg, DrPussy, HonestCrook, lglg666, President, MMKing, fdomme, siam66, SEAJ, hardone, 胡's your daddy!, nocturnal1984, GeGe, sponge05, basfreak, i^Xi0n, Cash8877, aalibaba, joHnnyBoy90, laoba, SimplyUnperfect , cupid, MimeBoxer, Cafu, hayhay, beautyhunter, BMW69, bestlicker, saas, Josh_Ray, starbuck, acemanfred55, cumminology, Swagelock, watssupp, SMGG, Tnuc111, Joe Fox, Pervy Sage, JustANewbie, hornyhubby, Ramirez, macktamer, Koiz, andrew101, Hilary, ClownTeaser , Nitro Trans, justdoit, Devil-Man, PeaceKris, ProjectAlice, 002nabe, lovecim, conly, reading, oxeso, Acegik, sexy_lion, FeiGohGoh, jc_wtc, Yakuza, mazda1947, jimfairy, Javabeans, mePoke, memorablez, TingTongLove, jorje, 222nge, devilchan78, S.B.Y.1 , hamsapkwai, esssinine, Woei, bunty, ken6890, Mito, guess67, shctaw, GoldRabbit, bbbjkim, Hanster, surbana, wpns, best123, snowcap, FishingPartner, Babarella, Spector69, HunnyCame888, BlueFinTuna, bk81665, masters, chaku, PeroPero, 99099, Supervert, iSaigon, Doubledare, Rasta Marley, Baigonggong, SirRumble, slyer, iphone1s, bizbiz, le113ru, Gem08, ComplainKing, BrillantKnight, masterwanker, Kuan Aik Hong, buzett, koebshaq0_0, ShiningGlory, More, AceAmando, Devil Reds, BlickBassy, Fishypartner, Abastor, takashi31400, KohOnly21, Evetan86, sleeping, Big Sister80, XiaoLaoPO, norigo77, 1deg, kthan10, sc slayer, urgg, JollyOne, GoldPool, CherryQQ, Jubilation, FookKew, b00bs, hairy_abalone, Ho-Lee, JokerDeBest, charcoalfilter, RedFrog, Lemon2, Treemon99, NRider, PowerSeh, raw1, bigbirdbird, Zacelfron, igor123, SingaHarimau, LeeHsienLoong, w00f, Greenfrog, Happyman007, VRossi1980, Raddy69, madpig88, curiousSG, Xxon, hakone, NastyThaiboy, Skypiea, BK4ever, MPLover, Truthful, JohnnyStorm, BBHumper, tarma69, mantaray73, MagicEight, Guardsmen, lion81, gilaxes, Coronet Peak, wester22, pompy, KnightScorpio, randily, crackpod, damong777, OserbergGold, manu_no7, tinalam, VoltaRedonda, fun12345, Sailsingapore , Shoot To Target, wally888, chatlovers, ctchua, Black Page, Abbie Mayo, ChinaAngel, CherryPickle, wohaha96, retepoet, zl1983, simifly, bababoo, gasscut, smoky7, anotherlife, Harvest, Arse-nal, Tho66, Young Hero, ReelSchnick, lobowolf, meatvegelove , SunRayys, skyscrape, sbftiankon, The Old Nite, clapton, ReddySpeed, ExBro, divedeeper, Ladypink, Nzkiwi, skyleon, Ashbirdy, Milobing, Spicy98, tittytitty, MattJB, ExBros, sg50, owl888, deathryuk, SkyBandit, plsfloodme, kopigaogao, VIETLONER, ml1138, Don28, ivan_tan00, aloius, pocketrocket, sinjktcnx, Love 6969, fullofrubbish, Froster, Regaine, Islands, JulianLuther, dyelook, howgoodisthat, Analingusman, BroRelax, Madpig, SnowLeopards, i44444, DarthRevan, lawbah, chochochang2, BlueCondor, SeanSky, oldslywolf, FireShark, DJMixologist, max_priest, BikinisLover, James Teo, sggirls, InnocentStar, 0808, mevius, lalala89, Brunt, RapidoBoy, Eternal Luck, kristoa7, SilentMan, RisingShadow, SkyCarpenter, Joyluck, QT169, Born1988, HornyKingKong, ArowanaBullet, dysfunk, bigtube99, BenjiGlory, marc5, BulleYe, bluezben, Blackcloud, sanuuk, Wu Song Jr, lonebonker, 126gal, oFudge, conquer, cyberkoh88, CoCK ShoCk , Steventan, LuckyKnight, Evileyes, xxFTOxx, szczesny, evo5555, Belwins555, Taramis, Eumiru, lost99, El Bistro, Tundrawolf, Prince7, Nickochee, grey82, Tinybee, ZacMissile, logmeinla, BowieKnife, sadlonelyguyer, SEX-NEWBIE, ilovesmurfs, Kingsle, Hazelnutty93, RisingDick, naturegreen, silverstrike, Bionic73, RenaCross, lone_dog69, kirk, orangeproud, wangboy, 1gsb9, 8115818990, KimEmma, sgGem, 972200, ktmakmak, bb88asdflkj, shitty_pants, SiaSuay, CHEEHONGKIA, WonderBee, Sasuke, hunter12, FavorOne, NewM00n, shawn teo, Mandin, blehz, FUNNYANDHORNY, cimhol, Botakhead2, lovestobonk, aries, Inceptor, slut, HayDay, hot1168, Spikerman, Me Siam Bu, Pink2577, badboys, Sen5eS, ejectjoy, Suwy, avboys, dcrusader, Oh yes, Saltyraw, HC NEWBIRD, ja02amz, tuyet, TurkeyBacon, jaydenboy, lazuka, Nanom, powerkid, Moderator88, tigo, Boss30, KTVbuddy, georgemagnum, stiffness, DoubleSSS, beefnoodle, silverug, unfit, paradise80, menshealth, atoz67, seekrelax, bitch, hitman1891, jackbl, lopakolkata, BonBonWin, impossible, blackberryboy, Bluerabbit, ZacCommand, hoian, Triple-X, wildnhard2005, joker88, redboi, Flyer1, blackface, simimabochap, binbin81, shuaige84, tapzs, 3MOQ, dandan69, Spud_Boy, launua2, Slide2Despair, rawboy83, Unitek, Alpha001, nottiboy, ibanezjem555, Sleepyguy2, maituleow, sunhuan-con, SehOng, Just_Did_It, MerlinW, Pompous, dogstar69, hongkongdoggy, overseasgboy, merelyevil, Lion_Barbell, Linkus, coolmanspooky, Link, crazysexycool, 1KnightinBKK, guest68. sirocca, cai shen, Yoyogi, NoFearSg, Catch22, lovelyboy, The Milk Man, Fat Fatt, xDylan, vampangel, Storm Arc, TheMentalist, Shiofukis, WOOHOO, fatty_leo, jonkoller, HuatAh16, dumdboy, Bugging, tropiccana, Passerbyer, izaaat, auxillaire, CaptAm, GreyMatter, Littlelostmouse, Jay Chou, Oshimayuko, Jebuschris91, Littlefeet, ahpek64, ossa, Thongchai, Tai_zi21, fastfoot, Power666, sibehchiam, ipay4six, Colot, mst1, silver5surfer, belvedere, KnowItAll, Aerodime, undergroundtree, Crucio, Sky88, Imfirecracker, Dinoroar, Amplus, GaDTaRk, ly1968, Fansees, kick_ass, Villian, owen10, xqueen, Fatty1234, Slapp, EnjoyLife99, Alfang, ADLO, fion.18, OldWulf, Miruo, SteelX, Toobee, ApplePie130, Weiwe, Usign, Asgapi, Cloudy80, Icekeeper, Metascooter, JJMagic, Msuzum, CheeseL, Alphaoasis, meijipcc, Ilovelemontea, Iluvfish, MyMyMine, BigBird123, jcang, Botakhead, NaughtynSensual, Super00, liewkc2503, everlasty, Taiko2006, kark69, Nantboy7, Dobo, Informer, lobangkingz, Xiaoboy18, riderboy, seabass, Nexium, Furby85, Radical, NewJiewAP, Charlie130, stardawn, beersingha, Destruction, Monaco, love2paint, I Love Boobs, UltramanTiga87, MrPlayer, RedDog, KDLiverpool, braxlex, hoosdathu, solopop, SG10, vampiredevil, XXLCat, HornyMushroom, dreamer326, danny888, KOC88, UnknownZzZ, Havanna Slicks, boisong1, STCC123, TiestoIsAss, topcook1, alansan, fuckwaynelim, PaladinofSola, stiwrx, iSlut69, willy12pee, junyi91, winner38, rocket1128, roja, strikeback4, whitejade, 69sex, doubledutch, stpboc, realTrump, Stpboc1, milffelladad, GladBoy, travelmate, BroRock_, Tempura, Sassy, FitPartner, thedevil666, RedBoar, alanthegreat, alanthedevil, Shadow_warrior, lhwalong, fullofnonsense, smellmyfart, karl88, jamesbond008, sexylanjiao, gabbby, CheongKa, goo_ey, Violet, fatguy, Littlerocketman, Essbend, ItsEileen, NotMyPresident, qazxcvbnm, Babymonkey, jay.lay, KelongPresident, LukasStar, hungten, iphonex, warhammer, Robertson26, KaraII, blackknight24Ma, blackwater, blackmole, Taolanpa, kim-seng-heng, RAMS75, bpafree39, A+++, Tuanehkia, fringe929, JoeGomez, Dixit, kumantong369, VirgilvanDijk4, candle2000, Chamberlian21, FEDERER801, borges, sharklaserscom, bareback, dbhh, FrankiePanky, whitecheese, Thi-sen, newton, sometimes_only, susubesar, BenDanny, teobeipio, WRX Impreza, Koizumi, icypryce, TheIdesOfMarch, mike3329, amercianpixcel, Orangeface, AmyLove, XingLing, blueblackface, sirrusstar, Spawn1980, SamLoMo, rojanaben, Hairyfox, SSSS69SG, 83ig, luvmenot, m1969, superman67, slicker69, woooot, whiteswift, JinSongSia, bigboobsloverrr, mingkia, bahkuteh, Soulfunk, CheeHongGan, cricket, WestWardly, minifeet, AlexanderArnold, WofWof, supercm, ILOVEMOLES, WankJanice, UncleBill, tomboy, shammboogrill, ironman8, knnstung, johnny21, dvilla, SilentKillerSB, legendkiller11, EasternWind, Cognoscenti, TigerGeneral, RicoStone, rikkimaru, Whiteface, GilaCow, hehehahaa, linoleum3, HoJinxx, Seebeysong, HRHorniness, SvampS, eddiebrock, ah rat, SweetJellies, bail1234, cataramp, SSTing, Sorbxe, hootduadua, otamay, diputs1269
__________________
Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? Answer: "I would not live forever, because we should not live forever, because if we were supposed to live forever, then we would live forever, but we cannot live forever, which is why I would not live forever,"
24-07-2018, 05:35 PM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
All are welcome to exchange...
please be patient while I up each bro daily. Thanks!
Me Siam Bu
Wish to hit 10K before June
Bro & Sis Support Support
Thanks
aturbo topguru lucky_lucky Seebeysong trichard 18sons Gilacow 木头和尚敲木鱼 Radiator Wolfboy supperclub testoste Linkus Prince7 perepopy ismeagain FLsuckers hootduadua WorldCup2018 billyphoo$$$$$$
24-07-2018, 06:23 PM
Samster (M)
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Sammyboy
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My Reputation:
Points: 4 / Power: 0
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pukimak0
HELP!
Thread for Exchange... 06-07-2018 05:27 AM congrats
Thread for Exchange... 05-07-2018 07:12 PM this is awesome
Thread for Exchange... 05-07-2018 07:44 AM I wonder what is happening here ???
Thread for Exchange... 05-07-2018 05:59 AM oooppps
Battle Zone and Points... 05-07-2018 05:31 AM resistance is futile
Battle Zone and Points... 05-07-2018 04:36 AM how to up you ???
Thread for Exchange... 05-07-2018 04:31 AM good luck
Exchange points in ZAP... 04-07-2018 11:13 PM up u 15 points by ipay4six
Thread for Exchange... 04-07-2018 09:55 PM big big huat
Thread for Exchange... 04-07-2018 08:50 PM happy 4th of July .
Battle Zone and Points... 04-07-2018 07:00 PM you never ask what type of points you want red or green . so we give you red
Thread for Exchange... 04-07-2018 05:37 PM sharing is caring
Thread for Exchange... 04-07-2018 04:20 AM spreading some poijts around no need to return favour
Battle Zone and Points... 04-07-2018 03:04 AM oops sorry press wrong button
Battle Zone and Points... 04-07-2018 02:25 AM how come cannot up you ???
Thread for Exchange... 04-07-2018 02:13 AM ok give you some red points
Exchange points in ZAP... 03-07-2018 08:23 AM Smoky7 +12
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 10:34 AM don't like your post
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 09:09 AM help u with what ???
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 08:34 AM don't worry your master will help you
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 06:51 AM to be or not to be
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 05:46 AM what goes up will come down
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 05:41 AM please zap me some more
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 12:14 AM Help you to maintain negative
Thread for UpZ exchange... 22-07-2018 12:12 AM Lucky can reset
Thread for UpZ exchange... 21-07-2018 09:59 PM what a wonderful nite
Thread for UpZ exchange... 21-07-2018 09:56 PM happy birthday
24-07-2018, 09:15 PM
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
8 pts for exchange
__________________
Min 4 points & above for exchange
19 070
28/8 Ahhui95+8, 27/8 kcy69+14
**NO Q, the above have been reciprocated
For >2nd UP, pls check with me.
IOU list: 6/8 Me Siam Bu +26
25-07-2018, 12:52 AM
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
+15 points for exchange. minimum 5 pointers. PM for faster return.
+15 points for exchange. minimum 5 pointers. PM for faster return.
25-07-2018, 08:56 AM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Seeking for those ONLY WITH rep points of 8 and above for exchange for now . Thank you .
Current outstanding list owing :
ThankyouSir
TigerGeneral ( return - 25.07.18 )
`destiny ( return - 25.07.18 )
木头和尚敲木鱼 ( return - 23.07.18)
Madpig ( return - 21.07.18 )
Gilacow ( return - 16.07.18 )
Taramis ( return - 12,07.18 )
Nanom ( return - 10.07.18 )
BrillantKnight ( return - 09.07.18 )
Skycarpenter ( return - 08.07.18 )
shawnwhite ( return - 04.07.18 )
exactmatxpeed ( return - 01.07.18 )
P.S. If I miss out anyone do please pm me .
__________________
Be kind to one another and the world will be a better place to live in .
25-07-2018, 11:46 AM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Priority To Clear KIV Samster Daily
Pls PM Me For Instant Points Return
Last edited by hccheonger; 25-07-2018 at 04:51 PM .
25-07-2018, 12:32 PM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Anyone want to exchange with my humble 6 point ? ( Note : u need to have at least a power 2 to trade )
__________________
To be up list :
Already Upped: otamay ; Koizumi ; diputs1269
Upped b4 :
2nd round to up : SureScore ; Prince7 ; TwinTowers ; lonebonker ; Cafu ; sailsingapore Greenfrog ; SimplyUnperfect ; Lemon2 ; lipe ; xpeipanx
MIA :
Age is just a number.
Ignore
LiverpoolClown
25-07-2018, 02:39 PM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
Anyone up for exchange?
Bro Slide2despair, Spikerman, Tailok, Amplus, weiwe, Tele, badboys, lost99, skyscrape, Ssamuel, Jonathansiv, samlomo, sams1
No latest post to return. Please pm me.
Appreciate the pm if you do upz me. easier for me to monitor
Pending: Nil
Pending 2nd Round: Goalie, retepoet, botakhead
__________________
The more you learn, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you forget.
The more you forget, the less you know.
So.. why learn?
25-07-2018, 04:32 PM
Samster
Re: Thread for UpZ exchange for bros and sis :) ......
19 green apples returned to 35cents today
Another 19 green apples available for exchange today.
Green apples will be return daily.
The queue is empty so do join in the queue if you are interested.
Thank you
Note: Priority will be given to bros with the HIGHEST POWER.
Next To Up List: -
New Post Required KIV List: brad (+18), simb1 (+15), edvil (+13), exactmatxspeed (+10), pixated (+7), SuperbLoverBoy (+5), plantronic (+4)
Pending for 2nd round up: MarlboroKen (+51), siam66 (+30), justl00king (+20), meatvegelove (+20), Hurricane88 (+19), SureScore (+17), Rasta Marley (+17), loneyheart (+14), Arse-nal (+13), TingTongLove (+13), smoky7 (+12), devilchan78 (+12), Supervert (+12), Cafu (+12), Goalie (+11), S.B.Y.1 (+11), sailsingapore (+11), bigbirdbird (+11), randily (+11), CoCK ShoCk (+10), SimplyUnperfect (+8), ClownTeaser (+6)
Already Up List: ( Click to show/hide ) Lamborghini, Hurricane88 , SureScore , Redapple26, simple2kee, sgiceboy, Naka_Timo, Cumexplorer, justl00king , Kalv, Nato17, xxxdreamer, waikeekee, submarinez, sex crusader, xlao, loneyheart , kyc2110, Apollo, mobliepod, Goalie , PPGirl, Rickey, sam30sg, nitecrawllerr, marlboroken, justfuckit, qizai, songest, lookingaround, NorthEast, compgen, ah rat, smartke, formula1, ShaolinHamster, clinton, wittyman, venussg, DrPussy, HonestCrook, lglg666, President, MMKing, fdomme, siam66, SEAJ, hardone, 胡's your daddy!, nocturnal1984, GeGe, sponge05, basfreak, i^Xi0n, Cash8877, aalibaba, joHnnyBoy90, laoba, SimplyUnperfect , cupid, MimeBoxer, Cafu, hayhay, beautyhunter, BMW69, bestlicker, saas, Josh_Ray, starbuck, acemanfred55, cumminology, Swagelock, watssupp, SMGG, Tnuc111, Joe Fox, Pervy Sage, JustANewbie, hornyhubby, Ramirez, macktamer, Koiz, andrew101, Hilary, ClownTeaser , Nitro Trans, justdoit, Devil-Man, PeaceKris, ProjectAlice, 002nabe, lovecim, conly, reading, oxeso, Acegik, sexy_lion, FeiGohGoh, jc_wtc, Yakuza, mazda1947, jimfairy, Javabeans, mePoke, memorablez, TingTongLove, jorje, 222nge, devilchan78, S.B.Y.1 , hamsapkwai, esssinine, Woei, bunty, ken6890, Mito, guess67, shctaw, GoldRabbit, bbbjkim, Hanster, surbana, wpns, best123, snowcap, FishingPartner, Babarella, Spector69, HunnyCame888, BlueFinTuna, bk81665, masters, chaku, PeroPero, 99099, Supervert, iSaigon, Doubledare, Rasta Marley, Baigonggong, SirRumble, slyer, iphone1s, bizbiz, le113ru, Gem08, ComplainKing, BrillantKnight, masterwanker, Kuan Aik Hong, buzett, koebshaq0_0, ShiningGlory, More, AceAmando, Devil Reds, BlickBassy, Fishypartner, Abastor, takashi31400, KohOnly21, Evetan86, sleeping, Big Sister80, XiaoLaoPO, norigo77, 1deg, kthan10, sc slayer, urgg, JollyOne, GoldPool, CherryQQ, Jubilation, FookKew, b00bs, hairy_abalone, Ho-Lee, JokerDeBest, charcoalfilter, RedFrog, Lemon2, Treemon99, NRider, PowerSeh, raw1, bigbirdbird, Zacelfron, igor123, SingaHarimau, 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Question: If you could live forever, would you and why? Answer: "I would not live forever, because we should not live forever, because if we were supposed to live forever, then we would live forever, but we cannot live forever, which is why I would not live forever,"
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