Stephen Leather's Private Dancer

[siamcutey]

Originally posted by GiddlyGook
I thought the right way to read the book was to read it and enjoy it as a story. A pretty good one one at that: if you do a search I rec'ed this more than a year back.

The same hyperbole could be applied I guess to the working ladies too. Many sad fucks among them who get cheated and spend their money on meng das (gigolos) and at bar houts (gigolo bars) and end-up with nothing. The BKK post did a write-up on washed-up bar-girls returning from overseas with a baby and nothing else. I'd bet that for every successful con-woman you hear about, there are more than a few of women who now have bleak lives.

At the end of the day, that's life. There's always some serious mojo karmic equilibrium at work.

Yeap, this book was written quite long time back, but I din't bother to read it till a brother told me read it recently. Since its online, I took the same step read it and gave my perception of it.

Actually the whole book was written with the first few parts of the chapter describing the simple minor tricks of these girls on how they con their way. Kinda stale in a sense. But what keeps people reading is the different perspective of the different characters as portrayed in the book.

Just like some may see a glass with water as half-filled while the others will see it as half-empty.

In the latter part of the book, that is the more interesting part. It shows the self-denial which man encounters in such relationship. Though I do find the ending a bit fictitious, but nevertheless it can be done.

A story I wouldn't deem it as sad, tragedy. But one that serves to give a reality check at all times.

As for working ladies who spend their hard earned money on DRUGS and GIGOLOs, thats life. Frankly they chose what they wanted and they will have to suffer the consequences if any.

This is Life.

SC

[tirak69]

i find that there is no good or bad... it depends on which side you look at... as SC says the glass can be half full or half empty... its a matter or perception. i guess wat private dancer did was to try to present both sides of the coin... and let the reader decide. afterall everyone has their way of justifying their own actions.

i do believe that this book is a good read... esp those that are new to bkk... it is not meant to condemn WL and say that they are all out to con but at least it serves to tell the newbies to open their eyes and play with caution.

[edkoh2000]

Its great that many have come forward to discuss about this. Bangkok tonight forum has 33 pages on this topic will wonderful wide range of views.

One thing we all agree is that newbies going to LOS have to be careful of this "fairyland".

Thereafter according to your own encounters and experience, judge for yourself what actions are deserving of you.

[Phucker]

hey ppl,

got a link to one of the interviews with our great writer...haha
Stephen Leather interview

Pasted this from the "post ur tirak" thread..

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by siamcutey
Many of the guys(not in this forum) who have seen it done it will have even more real life stories to tell.

SC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Haha...cannot resist posting something. I have many many stories to tell. Now too late and too tired to type. The condensed version is as follows:

Anyway, I agree totally. Ultimate tirak?
What's the point?
What is the criteria on being the ultinate tirak? (Is it subsidise?Is it come ur house? or is it let u meet her parents?) In the short space of 1 year and 4months, I went thru all the above with 3 different girls, but almost the same outcome.
1)I am not their one and only tirak(lost contact with the 1st ger liao) and
2)The last 2 gers still wanna work in the same line.

The interesting thing is I met these girls in different parts of their 'cycle' in the flesh trade. The 1st i met 3mths b4 she went back. The 2nd girl was my 'tirak' for 10 months, she went back and is in London now(bro Yomun, u know her too). Told me not to wait for her becos she still had many places to go to 'find money'. The 3rd girl is a FL i met recently, went her house and met her parents twice in rural Thailand. And what do u think is going to happen?.... She coming to work here this month.

After countless mind games, I really really dun feel a single tinge of bitterness. Because it's like that. They all want to earn money. You will never be their only. So many many causal bonks have told me they just wanna earn money, take care of their family by themselves and 1 girl even advised me not to fall for WLs. Her words were "because they love money". They all say, men can wait. We are still young.

Really, that is the truth of the matter. If I put myself in their shoes, if I come from the same developing country, if I have the same circle of WL friends, very honestly, I would choose the same route. The 3rd girl told me, why work so hard for so little money when u can earn so much more so comfortably? If u understand Thai and u listen to their conversations, u will really understand they are looking for the easiest way to earn the most money.

I'm not saying these girls are really poor and they are desperate for the money to keep their families alive. More often than not, these girls really are the major breadwinner in the family. BUT given the low cost of living, I really question how much she provided are wants and how much are needs. And be it BKK girls or Chiangrai girls, they all spend quite freely on branded goods and the BKK nightlife. Like SC ever said, money easy come easy go; or something like that.

His point about the circle of WL friends is very very VERY right. The influence these WLs have on each other is huge. Just like any normal chap in the street. Aiya, something about the "near red become red, near black become black" chinese proverb. How can a girl not be tempted about working in this trade when 90% of her friends are WLs and looking for the best place to earn the biggest bucks? Shall I work in BKK? or shall I go SG? Japan? Australia? London? the usual list....

I used to be sceptical about SC's negativity abt these girls. But as I went down the path myself, I seem to recall having read all my real life happenings in sammyboy. I could even predict the chain of events! Hahaha!

Aiya, condensed version still become so long-winded....jialat..anyway, good luck to all those still aspiring to be the ultimate tirak. I know u can get a great sense of satisfaction from accomplishing the feat, because it's really a HUGE hill to climb. But after u get to the top, maybe u would find a lot of guys there already..and then u realised it wasn't really worth the effort.

Don't ever put ur heart in it. It's a sure-lose game.

Finally,
CIMKing

[liketoplay]

the more I read , the more I'm scared....

Know my girl for less than 3 months and so far I've provided her everything she's asked for. I feel that she truly loves me but then again, am wondering if I'm her only guy....

I know she's no longer in the trade , thats for sure. Dun wish to think so much now , just see how it goes...

[sandman101]

Originally posted by liketoplay
the more I read , the more I'm scared....

Know my girl for less than 3 months and so far I've provided her everything she's asked for. I feel that she truly loves me but then again, am wondering if I'm her only guy....

I know she's no longer in the trade , thats for sure. Dun wish to think so much now , just see how it goes...

No need to be scared. Recognise that there is such a possibility. Ask yourself what would you do in the worst case scenario. Then carry on the relationship in the right way... good luck.

[liketoplay]

Originally posted by sandman101
No need to be scared. Recognise that there is such a possibility. Ask yourself what would you do in the worst case scenario. Then carry on the relationship in the right way... good luck.

Yes , even though I'm prepared for such a scenario , it'll still hurt when it happens. And I'll prefer to know the truth sooner than later. But I guess one will never know until something terrible happens .....

thanks bro.

[sandman101]

Originally posted by CIMKing
Pasted this from the "post ur tirak" thread..

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by siamcutey
Many of the guys(not in this forum) who have seen it done it will have even more real life stories to tell.

SC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Haha...cannot resist posting something. I have many many stories to tell. Now too late and too tired to type. The condensed version is as follows:

Anyway, I agree totally. Ultimate tirak?
What's the point?
What is the criteria on being the ultinate tirak? (Is it subsidise?Is it come ur house? or is it let u meet her parents?) In the short space of 1 year and 4months, I went thru all the above with 3 different girls, but almost the same outcome.
1)I am not their one and only tirak(lost contact with the 1st ger liao) and
2)The last 2 gers still wanna work in the same line.

The interesting thing is I met these girls in different parts of their 'cycle' in the flesh trade. The 1st i met 3mths b4 she went back. The 2nd girl was my 'tirak' for 10 months, she went back and is in London now(bro Yomun, u know her too). Told me not to wait for her becos she still had many places to go to 'find money'. The 3rd girl is a FL i met recently, went her house and met her parents twice in rural Thailand. And what do u think is going to happen?.... She coming to work here this month.

After countless mind games, I really really dun feel a single tinge of bitterness. Because it's like that. They all want to earn money. You will never be their only. So many many causal bonks have told me they just wanna earn money, take care of their family by themselves and 1 girl even advised me not to fall for WLs. Her words were "because they love money". They all say, men can wait. We are still young.

Really, that is the truth of the matter. If I put myself in their shoes, if I come from the same developing country, if I have the same circle of WL friends, very honestly, I would choose the same route. The 3rd girl told me, why work so hard for so little money when u can earn so much more so comfortably? If u understand Thai and u listen to their conversations, u will really understand they are looking for the easiest way to earn the most money.

I'm not saying these girls are really poor and they are desperate for the money to keep their families alive. More often than not, these girls really are the major breadwinner in the family. BUT given the low cost of living, I really question how much she provided are wants and how much are needs. And be it BKK girls or Chiangrai girls, they all spend quite freely on branded goods and the BKK nightlife. Like SC ever said, money easy come easy go; or something like that.

His point about the circle of WL friends is very very VERY right. The influence these WLs have on each other is huge. Just like any normal chap in the street. Aiya, something about the "near red become red, near black become black" chinese proverb. How can a girl not be tempted about working in this trade when 90% of her friends are WLs and looking for the best place to earn the biggest bucks? Shall I work in BKK? or shall I go SG? Japan? Australia? London? the usual list....

I used to be sceptical about SC's negativity abt these girls. But as I went down the path myself, I seem to recall having read all my real life happenings in sammyboy. I could even predict the chain of events! Hahaha!

Aiya, condensed version still become so long-winded....jialat..anyway, good luck to all those still aspiring to be the ultimate tirak. I know u can get a great sense of satisfaction from accomplishing the feat, because it's really a HUGE hill to climb. But after u get to the top, maybe u would find a lot of guys there already..and then u realised it wasn't really worth the effort.

Don't ever put ur heart in it. It's a sure-lose game.

Finally,
CIMKing

I like what bro edkoh mentioned in his earlier post "there may be many man (farang or us) who are blind or chose to remain blind but not every Thai is out to cheat and lie. They are real success stories too and if we chose to ignore that, it is itself a form of blindness. No doubt all who thread have to be careful."

It captures the essence of a relationship with a Thai WL doesn't it?

I am one who always tries to see the good in all people. As bro CIMKing had rightly pointed out, with the environment that these girls are in (WL colleagues and all), it would be foolish to deny the influence it exerts on the girls. But I think rather than saying that one shouldn't put the heart in a sure-lose game, perhaps it is worth exploring how we can turn the situation around gradually. Perhaps we have to explore how one can improve on their relationship from various levels of perspectives.

Basically what I am saying is, why focus on the negatives and let it paralyse all? Take heed of the inherent dangers (which bro SC has kindly shared with all), but move forward.

[siamcutey]

Originally posted by liketoplay
Yes , even though I'm prepared for such a scenario , it'll still hurt when it happens. And I'll prefer to know the truth sooner than later. But I guess one will never know until something terrible happens .....

thanks bro.

Then, you will have to ask yourself one simple question. What is your level of emotions involved in such a case? 30%, 50%, 70% or 100%. Thaiboy always tells me just put in 50%. At least you can hold yourself back. Putting in 50% doesn't mean you don't love her 100%, it just gives you a 50% chance to be able to ponder and give your ownself a reality check at times.

Without her, will you still live life to fullest. Definitely, because she didn't give you life. Your parents did. One can survive the earlier stages of 20-30 years in life and should be able to well-survive that for the next couple of decades with or without a tirak.

You might be hurt for a while, but who don't. Slowly the wound will heal and everything will be just fine.

SC

[siamcutey]

Originally posted by sandman101
I like what bro edkoh mentioned in his earlier post "there may be many man (farang or us) who are blind or chose to remain blind but not every Thai is out to cheat and lie. They are real success stories too and if we chose to ignore that, it is itself a form of blindness. No doubt all who thread have to be careful."

It captures the essence of a relationship with a Thai WL doesn't it?

I am one who always tries to see the good in all people. As bro CIMKing had rightly pointed out, with the environment that these girls are in (WL colleagues and all), it would be foolish to deny the influence it exerts on the girls. But I think rather than saying that one shouldn't put the heart in a sure-lose game, perhaps it is worth exploring how we can turn the situation around gradually. Perhaps we have to explore how one can improve on their relationship from various levels of perspectives.

Basically what I am saying is, why focus on the negatives and let it paralyse all? Take heed of the inherent dangers (which bro SC has kindly shared with all), but move forward.

Err, a correction. Telling lies is in their culture whether they are working ladies or decent ladies. Thai girls are a very diplomatic lot. If you are with them, they don't like you, they wouldn't tell you. They will give the impression that they like you but in actual fact they don't. For what reasons, I wouldn't know. (Maybe they are great diplomats.)

Improving relationship from various levels of perspectives? Let's put it in a simple way. The only way to imprve on the relationship is to be 24/7 with her all the time. No amount of phonecalls, no amount of emails can improve on that. Phonecalls, emails, visits are on a superficial surface. Being 24/7 is the only time where day in day out you see her, she see you, thats how to work it out.

Either is bringing her to SG stay long term or you going to Thailand and stay long term. This is the sacrifice that must be made. Only then can you really start as Day 1 in working on the relationship. Citing other reasons such as work commitments, family reasons are simply just excuses. Because in order to make it work, 1st of all sacrifices have to be made. Once sacrifices are made, then worthwhile to talk about other stuff.

SC

[liketoplay]

Originally posted by siamcutey
Then, you will have to ask yourself one simple question. What is your level of emotions involved in such a case? 30%, 50%, 70% or 100%. Thaiboy always tells me just put in 50%. At least you can hold yourself back. Putting in 50% doesn't mean you don't love her 100%, it just gives you a 50% chance to be able to ponder and give your ownself a reality check at times.

Without her, will you still live life to fullest. Definitely, because she didn't give you life. Your parents did. One can survive the earlier stages of 20-30 years in life and should be able to well-survive that for the next couple of decades with or without a tirak.

You might be hurt for a while, but who don't. Slowly the wound will heal and everything will be just fine.

SC

I've been through few relationships already so will definitely survive with or without her. Thing is she's the only girl I've spent so much on in such short time , so will feel like a big fool if her feelings are not real. As for myself , think I've put in 70-80% into this relationship.

[liketoplay]

Originally posted by yomun
The following comments are not pouring cold water but are facts.

What you're doing now is called sponsoring. Very common lah in LOS. I reckon you are not even residing in LOS. Careful man. Even experienced bros residing in LOS can also get cheated. How about those not living in LOS? You're not there to monitor yourself 24/7 so you'll never know what's going on. TG's friend can spot you with a female friend somewhere and give you a call to check on you. Why can't you do the same? But do it undercover style. Haha.

Just hire a PI and you'll know the truth. Simple as that. Only depends whether you can handle the truth. There're some DIY methods where you can find out. Let me know if you're in BKK. We can further discuss this. By the way I'm not in the PI business so don't misunderstand I'm self promoting.

exactly , though we talked on e phone 1-2 times daily , we are not together 24/7. But she always seems kancheong and jealous if I dun call her at night or I'm out drinking till late. I can say I trust her 95% but after reading so much ... better be on my guard.

Will definitely meet up with you on my next trip. But will not be so soon as now am busy with work. Most prop in Feb .

[edkoh2000]

For the first time I agree with SC on the below...

-------------
Either is bringing her to SG stay long term or you going to Thailand and stay long term. This is the sacrifice that must be made. Only then can you really start as Day 1 in working on the relationship. Citing other reasons such as work commitments, family reasons are simply just excuses. Because in order to make it work, 1st of all sacrifices have to be made. Once sacrifices are made, then worthwhile to talk about other stuff.
---------------

I for one don't believe in Long Distance R/S of any kind...whether be it with a Singapore girl or a thai girl....working girl or non-working girl.

Originally posted by sandman101

Basically what I am saying is, why focus on the negatives and let it paralyse all? Take heed of the inherent dangers (which bro SC has kindly shared with all), but move forward.

Well said brother Sandman...!

To me...its logical if I ask my girl to quit the scene to sponsor her some $. Whether Singapore girl or any girl, if you believe financial security is not involved then you are the real fool! Whichever way we also have to spent money.

Having said that, we are not robert or carrot or ATM...we have to be careful what we spend, how much and whether the girl is worth it.

I do try my best to walk carefully everytime I fall in love (though it is difficult). I give my trust but doesn't mean I give $ freely.

Always be on-guard especially the early days and try to spend more time with her. The greatest actress cannot act 24hrs a day, 365 days a year.

[siamcutey]

Originally posted by liketoplay
exactly , though we talked on e phone 1-2 times daily , we are not together 24/7. But she always seems kancheong and jealous if I dun call her at night or I'm out drinking till late. I can say I trust her 95% but after reading so much ... better be on my guard.

Will definitely meet up with you on my next trip. But will not be so soon as now am busy with work. Most prop in Feb .

Let me tell you 1 incident which I ever seen. The girl can go out and drink with friends till wee hours in the morning while the boyfriend cannot do that while in singapore. Just like men. Can go out and play while thinking that their wife or gf should not do that. Apply the same thinking vice versa and you get the idea. Women want you to call them so that they can show their domination side that you are in their control.

1 thing you should be on guard 24/7 all the time. Even though she is good or whatsoever.Whether WL, or Non WL. There are even cases of thai women who love to have affairs when they have husbands. Their mentality is my husband is out playing, so should I. Welcome to the Real Thailand.

hahaha
SC