Sales People for China, Hong Kong and Taiwan

[Niceman]

84Gunners,
oic, u also was in deep shit huh.....good part is that you have ease your shit now, but some of us still carry shits....
Hopefully works for me is smooth and can clear shit asap.
Pray hard....sometime, cant believe in hard work alone, cos Lucks do play major part of it.
After all these years, I started to doubt hard work pays well like our Ah Kong days. These days, is not how hard we work, is who the hell we know.
Only my 2cents thoughts.
You have a nice day

[Shanghai Papa]

Originally Posted by Ronaldo

Yupz.. This is exactly what I am doing now... Hehehe...
Hope to see you soon.....

Dear bro Ronaldo,

Wah! Share your lobang leh...

Cheers,
Shanghai Papa

[Shanghai Papa]

Originally Posted by 84gunner

i was based in SHA for almost 2 years, & stayed in Taiwan for almost 1 year. currently in bangkok, & will be here for the next few months.

Dear bro 84gunner,

I envy your job which requires you to travel around often. Guess I should've pursued a IT career after my NS (I actually got a IT diploma)...

After reading your postings, I guess my situation is different from yours. I was kinda "forced" to quit my job back in Singapore (not because I screwed up, in fact I was voted "Employee of the Year" the year before my resignation) due to political reasons. I took a break before deciding to seek an alternative lifestyle overseas.

Like what some other bros mentioned, I had to make a big sacrifice by leaving my family, friends and community service (I was a high ranking office-bearer in a few grassroots organisations). Of course I am also fed up with the beauracracy and high living standards in SG. I am also fed up with the summer heat...

Living in Shanghai offered me a brand new perspective. With the same amount of pay I'm getting in SG, I could well afford to start my own family, rent a big apartment, purchase a new car and live a lifestyle which I surely cannot afford back in SG. Of course I should not be complaining since I also get to enjoy 4 seasons!

But working here is really a misery. I am not a cheonging person when it comes to work but the pace, attitude and culture is so... different (I don't want to use any negative words because this is subjective). Sometimes, I feel that the methods they adopt to settle issues can be done differently (in a more SG way) but they'd rather choose to continue using their "proven" method instead of change.

Change is a BIG word here among the local Chinese. I tried to change the way the locals work by implementing SG measures which could improve productivity and efficiency (bear in mind it means achieveing the same result or better using the same amount or lesser energy) but they just simply refuse to change because their mentality is "why change something that is not spoilt" unless their (local) immediate superior tells them to change...

Many times, I encounter situations, where there is work that needs to be done but the local Chinese (knowing and seeing that work has to be done eventually) will rarher wait for their superior to tell them to do so instead of using their initiatives. Sometimes, by the time their superior tells them to clear their work, the business deal is lost - too late!

Of course there're always stories from the news depicting the negativity of China, anything ranging from crimes to poor law enforcement...

It's only through living and working overseas do I realise how lucky I am to be borned in this tiny little red dot I call home even though it has its fair share of imperfections...

Anyway to cut a long story short - thank you for sharing your views with us and I do enjoy reading your postings here!

Cheers,
Shanghai Papa

[Ronaldo]

Originally Posted by Shanghai Papa

Dear bro Ronaldo,

Wah! Share your lobang leh...

Cheers,
Shanghai Papa

Lobang? After 1 month of job-hunting after I came back in Nov 2005, then I found this job after like countless interviews.... hehehe... Got lobang sure let you know, but.... I dont know what you do? hahahaha..

Actually we really cannot compare between working in Singapore and China as we have to do the "apple to apple, pear to pear" theory. In Singapore, we are nothing as all of us are at least billigual and have a self respect inside us. Those around us always seem more capable and successful than us. Then the "BLAME" factor kicks in, so we blame the society, we blame the government, we blame ourselves..

When I was in primary school, my principal always tells us, you will be the future of Singapore, leaders of the nations. I think most of you remember this shit in during those National Day celebration. (oh.. Aug 9 coming again). I was so full of confidence even after leaving NS that I would be "special" even though in my school, there are super highflyers with LKY scholarships.

Reality kicks in when you start looking for your first job as there are tens of thousands that are of the same calibre as you. And double those who are more qualified than you. Then you become so disappointed and finally, you may settle in for a 9-5 admin job with your BA degree or a 12 hour shift production supervisor with an Engineering degree. Leaders? I guess at that time you only lead the coffee aunty or maybe some bangalah worker.

Working overseas in 3rd world countries, we are somehow different. From the time when we write our names, we are already special. With our dialect name, we sound more Vietnamese than Singaporean. Thats why when we are in China for example, we become more treasured as we are special. While people like ShanghaiPapa can afford the high life in SHA, those local Chinese might be having some Sammyboy forum mirror site complaining about us expats taking their jobs, fucking their women and boss over them with our beautiful theories. Just like how we hate those expats in Singapore who take 3 times our pay but do 10 times lesser.

Overseas experience is always good as it opens your eyes to many things. Doing sales as this thread suggest, you generally interact more with people and culture. This kind of experience helps you in your career advancement and of course increase your value of life. You have people in Singapore dying to come overseas yet you have people begging to go home. Different people, different expectation.

For example, like ShanghaiPapa, I could probably afford a car in China when I was working here. But I am not sure if the car will still be in my carpark when I wake up the next morning. You can be sure your security guard can tell you he doesnt know what happened as he thought the driver who drove out at 3am was you. Whereas in Singapore, you enjoy a certain security whereby things can be planned and you can rest assured if you follow certain guidelines you will get the expected results.

But in China, you can modify your car till the cows come home. In Singapore, the ROV guy will be just waiting at the next junction and check for your exhaust. So we have to decide what we want. I have friends who want to come work in China. And when I introduced, they tend to back out the last minute as they realised they cannot leave the comfort zone of Singapore.

In every country, IMHO, there is no equal standing. You may feel left out like Gunner84 when he is in Singapore, but he suddenly become much better when he is overseas. So he felt that its China who has given him the chance. Isnt it the same as some American badass who is just white by nature, who cannot get a decent job in LA, coming to Singapore drawing an expat pay and fucking our Singapore girls? As much as we hate those expats, we have those Chinaman in SHA hating us "jia-lao-wai".

So we just come to SBF to kaopeh abit, then still wake up the next day and go to work. Like I have just woken up in SHA, and at 530, the bloody sun is out. Want to sleep also cannot. hehehee....

[McMuff]

Originally Posted by Ronaldo

Lobang? After 1 month of job-hunting after I came back in

So we just come to SBF to kaopeh abit, then still wake up the next day and go to work. Like I have just woken up in SHA, and at 530, the bloody sun is out. Want to sleep also cannot. hehehee....

wah wake up at 5a.m in shanghai to share your nuggets of wisdom with the world. must be cos your ktv chick refuse your second shot request and you have nothing to do right?

good stuff tho.

[oakleyeug]

Comfort zone of Singapore, I have long forgotten that in the past still miss SG like crazy. After 2 trip back started to feel normal and suddenly feel like not going back, now I prefer not to travel but asked my family to travel out of SG to visit me.

Roanldo I think the sun does not rise at 5am in Shenzhen or Dongguan, bloody hell 430am see sky bright already (after WC thinking it is working time).

Yupzzz remember your job hunting or interviews for you, thought you really this time goin to your family business for good (hummm the plane plan when? Interview started already?).

About your modifiy of cars not too true, I was caught with noise disturance (pipe too loud liao). Now LL change back to normal ones, but I will return soon with another 1....

Take good care of yourself in SH hot there, more water is good for you my friend.

[OceanEleven]

Originally Posted by oakleyeug

Take good care of yourself in SH hot there, more water is good for you my friend.

Honestly, I think nothing beats the comfort of home, well it is home after all, I mean after casting away the other issues such as living cost and policies. Stuck here for a good long time and many things still goes begging. Perhaps got too used to high efficiency, productivity and many high quality services. Here, one has to swallow the pride and ego matter and take it in our stride.

[Sinoview]

Originally Posted by SGPshanghai69

China reports new outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease

Above is another news article clipped from Yahoo Singapore news online..... all over China to be cautious about! utions to all bros.....................

That's another problem when we are in China.
The "real" news disemination sysytem here really sucks. It reaches the public after much "delay". Probably thru many levels of screening.

We heard abt this "Outbreak of F n M disease" in China early last week in Singapore.

But the TV media channls in China are very super fast to report "foreign" news...Nb.

Thus, we have to read many overseas web news if we wanto keep ourselves abreast on current happening China. Signz...

[84gunner]

yes, different individuals have different feelings. there r brudders who love every bit of China (or any other country outta sinkapore) & probably dun wish to step into sinkapore ever again, there r oso those who miss sinkapore badly, becos of reasons like family, frens, safe & secure, etc, etc.

my analysis is, split us sinkaporeans (foreigners) in china into 2 major categories: those working for others (the employee), and those businessmen (the employer).

as an employee, u can dun care how much $$ the company make, how slow the progress, etc, etc. as long as end of the month, i get my salary, end of the year, I can still look 4ward to promotion / pay increment. so as an employee, why kan cheong? relax, can take things easy. rite? but the fear factor is still there for those in leadership positions. they scared the boss put the blame on them, etc.

for the businessmen, every cent of revenue is your $$, your salary. so it's natural u will kan cheong. the employee / progress is slow / bo chap, business opportunity lost means u lose $$. from my observation, this is the category of sinkaporeans / non-mainland chinese who complain most about china employees more than they enjoy life in china.

now, u know which category i belong to. individual personality oso play a part, but after the chain of events in the past several years, i tell myself: even if I am a business man, I think I oso dowan to be so kan cheong. yes, every cent, every dollar of revenue is your $$, who doesnt wanna earn more $$? but you cant earn all the $$ in the world. life is oso not all about earning $$. I have learnt (still in the process of learning) to appreciate other aspects of life. if I'm a businessman, I'll set a baseline, just make enuf $$ to support my / family financial needs, any extra is of course welcome. I believe by doing so, I'll be a happier man, my employees may oso be happier, and this indirectly motivates them.

with many, if not most, mainland chinese people, u kan cheong oso no use. it doesnt work with them. u have to earn their respect & motivate them. then u will find how amazing it is when they respect & are motivated to work with / for you. sinkapore is used to the way of leading by fear. like in the military. u dun do this, u dun do that, u will be punished (poor appraisal, etc). workers scared managers, managers scared bosses / directors / VPs, so many people work hard for the fear of punishment, not really sincere & motivated to work hard & achieve.

in a previous project, i was team lead for asia pacific. the mainland chinese & taiwanese are similar. poor english, shun responsibilities, shun blame, etc. so whenever there is occasions where we need to communicate in english, i will step forward, whether it is my responsibility or not (so they dun lose face). when something goes wrong, again, i step forward, i just say gimme some time, let my team investigate & resolve the problem, then i will provide updates (report to mgmt) on the problem. I take the blame, if a finger is pointed. I do most of the overtime, i tell them to go back home on the dot, to their personal lives, their families, etc. they feel safe, hiding behind me, whether it is losing face, or taking the blame. they feel i take good care of them. so when i need them to do things, they get it done for me pretty fast! so far, the mgmt, whether regional or global, trust & rely on me that much to lead & drive the things here. they are comfortable in sitting back, relaxed, and getting the regular updates from me. things do go wrong (since when does things work perfectly all the time?), but they feel confident enuf that these can be rectified & come under control pretty soon. or, maybe i m lucky enuf that so far, the problems are non-critical, hahaha. the mgmt just go to some sites for occasional / planned visits, and we all enjoy the meals & entertainment / interaction moments, exchanges of cultures, etc.

I heard many of the ang mos (Americans & Europeans) say, it's just amazing how I get the Chinese (whether mainland or Taiwanese) to work. Probably I speak Mandarin & several of their dialects, and know their culture well enough.

an important strategy:
得民心，得天下

[84gunner]

Originally Posted by OceanEleven

Honestly, I think nothing beats the comfort of home, well it is home after all, I mean after casting away the other issues such as living cost and policies. Stuck here for a good long time and many things still goes begging. Perhaps got too used to high efficiency, productivity and many high quality services. Here, one has to swallow the pride and ego matter and take it in our stride.

yes, i would say many of us still carry our way of working, attitude, pace, mentality, etc, etc when we go work overseas, whether it is china or any other country. well, i would say, when in rome, do as the romans do! you can oso try go india, see if things are the same, hahaha.

so u realise why life in sinkapore is so kan cheong / mang zhang?

pride? ego? dignity? wtf is that? i didnt really tink i still have that, even b4 i left sinkapore! i used 2 ask people, how much is 1 gram of "face" worth? i feel that, if u have $$, if u have great achievements where many people know about it, u will naturally have more pride. if not, filling your stomach & family's stomachs is more important, or pride is more important? scold me all you want, scorn me all you want, etc, as long as i get things done or what i want, i dun really bother much about pride.

perhaps that is another factor i can achieve more & m a happier man. they want face, i give them all the face i can give.

productivity, high quality, etc. we r always comparing & competing. compared with the 3rd world countries, we can be proud. compare with the advanced countries, we are still far from them! so we are neither here nor there! 人比人， 气死人。many times, i feel we are like lost kids!!!

[dondonboy]

Originally Posted by 84gunner

an important strategy:
得民心，得天下

This is so true. You've captured the essence of the Chinese mindset. I'm sure that you'll continue to fly higher with this attitude.

[just4fun]

Originally Posted by 84gunner

an important strategy:
得民心，得天下

Well Said!!!!

but hard to do...considering there will be ppl taking things for granted.

[84gunner]

Originally Posted by just4fun

but hard to do...considering there will be ppl taking things for granted.

agree, that there are some black sheeps ard that take things for granted.

but from my observation, i oso feel that 1 rule applies to all doesn't really work. that is what I feel is applied in sinkapore: 1 policy applies to all, not much, if at all, any room for exceptions.

u cannot satisfy everybody. use a rule that benefits the majority, satisfy the majority. as for the minority, exercise some flexibility / exceptions on conditions, etc. for the black sheeps, we have to deal with them individually, whether hard or soft way!

[shengge]

Originally Posted by 84gunner

yes, different individuals have different feelings.

my analysis is, split us sinkaporeans (foreigners) in china into 2 major categories: those working for others (the employee), and those businessmen (the employer).

an important strategy:
得民心，得天下

Dear Bro 84gunner,
I couldn't agree more with your analysis.
Each individual has different mind set. Most ppl see the opportunities in China, for the fact that it is not so develop, just like Vietnam.
To work in China, could be really a nitemare; but while I talked to an angmoh, he said wait till you go to India...

After all, it is about 墙内、墙外。So sometimes, it is good to be contented with what we have on hand.

My 2分！

Cheers!

[LawTeoChew]

From my limitted oversea posting experience in 4 countries, I found that it is never easy trying to do business, or work, in any of the country I been. Even home base has its problem.

But hor, dispersing money is always easy and pleasant!

Cheers
LTC