Tieng Viet lovers club

[jackbl]

How you experienced the same as reported above???

[jackbl]

Vietnamese’s bad habits: Honking horns in Saigon
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Editor’s Note: American expat Robert Ackley says that in order to ease the traffic madness in Ho Chi Minh City, drivers must stop incessantly honking their horns.

Much has been written, especially of late, on the erratic and confusing nature of Vietnamese traffic law and culture. This is something I have long ago sorted out in my head and I have resigned myself to the roads here. Now, I’m but another expat on a Honda Wave, inching through the madness at 5:00 pm or careening down Nguyen Thi Minh Khai before the break of day. Admittedly, I use the sidewalks to my advantage and I often tread up one ways to save time because this kind of behavior on a motorbike seems to be accepted here in Ho Chi Minh City.

While it can produce temporary headaches and occasional accidents, the chaos maintains a harmony that is nothing short of remarkable considering the sheer volume of motorbikes on the road. However, if we want to talk about reforming the traffic in the city and call it a “problem,” where do we begin? Do we talk about missing mirrors or the lack of turn signals or do we focus on the arbitrary right-of-way laws that are engrained in the traffic system? I think it’s safe to say there’s no single way to change everything, but I do think there are ways to ease the pain, so to speak. We could start with noise pollution. That’s right, could we all calm down with the horns please?

To me, honking a horn can mean one of three things: you’re in my way and I want you to move, I’m coming towards you and you may not see me so here I am warning you, or the friendly ‘hello’ as you pass an acquaintance. In this southern hub, there must be more.

As a safety issue, I get it – you’re trying to pass someone and you want to let them know you are coming in strong to their left. However, the roads are full of people trying to pass each other and this sometimes results in a whole lot of honking and very little passing. Other times people sit in standstill traffic and honk aimlessly. They seem to forget they are honking until the light blinks green.

Perhaps the biggest players in the game of Ho Chi Minh City noise pollution are the taxis. They are awful. We all understand that taxis and cars belong in the left lane, but then again who follows the rules anyway? Taxis feel that it is their right to remind motorbikes that they are in the wrong lane even if they are a safe distance away. There is nothing worse than being trailed by a Vinasun under the control of a happy-handed driver. As they fade further away in the rearview mirror, their shrill cries for justice shriek on.

In America, if you honk at someone then there is a problem. You’re angry at them and demand explanation. It’s rare but not impossible to see verbal or even physical fights that begin with a feisty exchange of horns. So you can imagine that the transition from this to the all out free-for-all volley of horn blasts can be quite disorienting.

Keep in mind that the culture of honking in America has its variances. Some cities are more liberal behind the wheel, while others subject drivers to fines for unnecessary honking in certain parts of town. The UK as well delivers different views on this kind of noise. Honking in general is seen as very disrespectful unless absolutely necessary although I’m sure they too have their noisier cities. Needless to say, the West has no city that comes close to matching the frenzied racket of Ho Chi Minh City.

To pursue solutions to the problem is difficult because the problem brings us back to this city’s hazy traffic laws. The laws, or lack of laws, support the notion that every driver has the right-of-way. If you have the right to cut someone off while traveling the wrong way up a one-way street then what don’t you have the right to do? Honk your horn while doing so? I don’t think so.

While it is not uncommon that the abrasive barking of a Vinsaun taxi horn makes me want to drive my motorbike off the Saigon Bridge, the madness does make me smile sometimes. For instance, when I was cut off by a man whose horn has become worn out after years of overuse and the sound was thus reduced to that of a choking chicken, I couldn’t help but giggle. Better yet, I remember driving home once on a deserted road in District 3. A man came cruising by in the other direction with a broom in one hand, the bristles pointed towards the sky. His horn sounded on and off as he approached me and continued like this all the way down the street. Was he celebrating the victory of his favorite football club? Honking in a blind rage? Expressing his wild love for life in a series of disjointed beeps? I don’t know. Nothing was apparent. Maybe he was drunk, maybe I was dreaming, or maybe we were both living in Ho Chi Minh City.

[jackbl]

Vietnamese’s bad habits: Never sticking to the plan
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Editor’s Note: Stivi Cooke is an Australian expat based in Hoi An Ancient Town in central Vietnam. He is working as an English language and hospitality teacher in the town.

Bad habits in Vietnam huh? We could be here all day talking about this one! Hmm… Picking your nose in public? Especially if you work in a restaurant? Nah – that’s being covered. Men peeing in the street in full view of the public? Ha! Must have been mentioned before! Loud music? Throwing stuff on the floor in a Vietnamese restaurant? I really don’t know where to start…

Oh, yes I do! Sticking to a plan! Time is a good example. I used to tell people to come to my office at 10:00 am, only to find myself waiting in total confusion for up to an hour and sometimes more.

If I said 10:00 am – Vietnamese will leave their houses around 10-‘ish’ and turn up with ten minutes before lunch which starts at 11:30 am, depending on the road conditions, whether they’ve read and replied to all their emails and texts or have planned to go to the market and visit seven friends recovering from motorbike accidents in hospital. Equally likely is a 7:00 am BAM-BAM on my door by someone who’s climbed over my fence to see me.

Now, a Westerner will get ready around 9:00 am, make sure everything has been done, and give himself plenty of time to arrive early. For us, a plan is a PLAN. Agreed to, signed in blood, never to be broken or changed without asking the other party first. Here – forget it.

Building a house is another great example. Months of patiently drawing the designs with the Vietnamese architect who may or may not have a clue what you want. The doors go HERE. The light switches go THERE. Haha… Good luck with that!

Unless you are literally on the site at dawn every day, anything can happen. One of my friends built a hotel with an open floor plan only to have the builders decide to include a water feature smack bang in the middle of the bar area!

Another friend was gobsmacked to discover that a decorative ‘central pillar’ had been constructed in the middle of his living room, making it almost impossible to move around freely.

Even in my own home, where I have lived for barely five years, the power switch, hot water switch and water pump switch are in three different corners of the room, meaning I have to walk in silly circles every time I want a shower!

It does not matter that it’s our money or time that’s been wasted and it’s near-impossible to get any compensation after the event. A contract is not a contract – it is a work in progress, subject to changes at any moment. A verbal agreement is a fool’s dream and a meeting without note-taking is a disaster waiting to happen.

There have been times when I had to abandon teaching projects because the local managers decided to change timetables into impossible schedules. Why? The timetables didn’t suit them but no new plan was drawn up.

Again – a plan is a plan – stick to it. The Vietnamese are learning the hard and very expensive way that dozens of resort projects that are now way overdue for completion, or even commencement, and ridiculously underfunded never had any real plan to begin with.

Even worse, many projects clash with one another once finished quickly because the plans never included any thoughts of consequences, a concept so alien to many Vietnamese that it deserves a whole article of its own.

Study plans are an awesome example. Let’s agree to learn for three months. By the second month, a third of the class discovers it doesn’t have the budget to continue, another third realizes they can’t learn English fluently in twelve weeks, and the remaining third are what I call ‘the successful generation’ – those who will stick to the plan no matter how hard it is.

Yet the excuses can be quite entertaining. “I thought it would look better this way.” Really? Can I now change your house too? “Teacher, I was tired.” Is that so? I saw you drinking in the coffee shop until 1:00 am. “My grandfather died.” Come on, he’s died three times this year, you’d better pick another relative to blame. “We need the classroom for our meetings.” Nup! You only meet twice a month to listen to a boring two-hour lecture from the boss… Sheesh!

Will it ever change? Sure. The more savvy young Vietnamese entrepreneurs now working with foreigners are discovering and learning rapidly the benefits of keeping to a plan or agreement. Young women in the hospitality workforce are often on time and keep to the plans for study.

Even for working class Vietnamese – they are learning that they have to stick to the plan to beat their competition or get things done in an economy that now depends on speed of transport and construction to grow. My neighbors are discovering they have to book sand deliveries on particular days now because the market is bigger and busier than ever before.

So, the next time someone is late – it’s your fault and you can meet me at the beach – I changed my plans…

[jackbl]

Re: Is it hard to kick Vietnamese’s bad habits?
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Editor’s Note: Dear readers! Our “Topic for discussion: Is it hard to kick Vietnamese’s bad habits” has attracted lots of comments and stories from expats and foreign visitors. Tuoitrenews welcomes any response from you regarding this matter, so please direct your comments or/and articles to [email protected]

Below are some opinions against those previously published on our website.

John Childs (Kangaroo Island, Australia)

Xin chao! I'm an expat living in Vietnam for six plus years. I love Vietnam and try to write a little from my experience here.

Yes, I know very well what your writer refers to. This criticism has become a well known dirge among foreigners in Vietnam.

I don't agree with the notion that Vietnamese behavior needs education from the West and I'll say why.

As a Westerner who has also lived amongst different cultures before coming to Vietnam, I was first struck by the freshness and novelty of Vietnamese people [and] their essential "get on with their neighbors" character.

This is their strength and their operating system. This drives behavior that has become lost in Western society, so yes we have all these rules and punishments on the roads, but ha! People behave very badly despite all that.

Your writer omits to mention how in "Western Paradise" despite all the rules and punishments, fundamentally bad behavior and anger persist. That's the difference and Vietnam is a far better environment for that reason. The west can learn from this, [fewer] traffic lights, personal responsibility, sure there is this so-called ‘tunnel vision’ but 'not anger'.

Remember I'll experience road rage in Sydney. I prefer Vietnam.

Lindsey Kiang (Boston, Massachusetts)

That is an interesting topic! But I think that "advice" from foreigners (expats) on how the Vietnamese should behave sounds quite colonial. It sounds like foreigners again telling the "locals" how they should come up to foreign standards. Didn't Vietnam fight a very long war to gain its independence from foreign dominance?

No doubt there are many annoying habits in Vietnam; as a frequent visitor, I have seen them myself. But the Vietnamese people are entitled to live the way they want to live. If there are to be changes in behavior, suggestions or recommendations should come from the Vietnamese people themselves, not from condescending expats who are not part of the culture.

Your series can be very interesting and positive, but only if the observations and recommendations come from your Vietnamese readers themselves.

Glynn-Michael

In the “Honking horns” story, your writer wrote: “Admittedly, I use the sidewalks to my advantage and I often tread up one ways to save time because this kind of behavior on a motorbike seems to be accepted here in Ho Chi Minh City”.

I don’t agree with this. Actions like this have caused numerous street accidents [to] the (worldwide) tourist[s]. More expats like your writer should obey the accepted (worldwide) rules of the road. Stay [out] of the sidewalk and don’t go the wrong way. Staying in the motorbike lane usually won’t reward you with HONK HONK.

The press is full of stories about how to enhance Vietnam’s tourist image. Maybe here is a good start for those who can make a difference.

[Hurricane88]

Originally Posted by jackbl

How you experienced the same as reported above???

yes very often...sort of immune and just go with the flow since i am foreigner in their land...

[jackbl]

Vietnamese’s bad habits: Those 'annoyin’ Hanoians!'
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Editor’s Note: Scott Duke Harris, our Hanoi-based columnist, responds to an April 9 article by an anonymous Australian who complained that Vietnamese are stuck in so-called “Tunnel Vision,” which only allows them to see what is directly in front of them, not anything behind or next to them.

HANOI – The other day I was riding in a crowded taxi, seated beside the driver. We eased to a stop on a busy street, our path blocked by the sedan with a clearly inexperienced driver making an awkward U-turn in front of us.

He had maneuvered around one of those slim concrete barriers, designed to prevent the kind of risky passing maneuvers common among Vietnamese motorists, and was blocking two lanes.

To my far right, I noticed a motorcyclist with one passenger move forward, hoping to slither past the sedan in the gutter against the beveled curb.

The driver of the car had paused, as if belatedly realizing he lacked space to make a U-turn and would have to back up a bit before proceeding forward. The motorcyclist seized the moment.

But then the sedan lurched forward – and the right front bumper smacked the motorcycle in the side, knocking it and its riders tumbling on to the sidewalk.

Both the driver of the car and the rider of the motorcycle seemed stunned, as if wondering how that could have happened. The good news was that nobody appeared seriously injured. The driver of the sedan backed up and then moved a few feet forward before stopping to check on the motorcyclist and his passenger.

This incident came to mind as I read a recent post in Tuoi Tre’s City Diary titled “Tunnel Vision” by an Australian who has lived in Vietnam for ten years but didn’t want his or her authorship known.

The anonymous Aussie suggested that “tunnel vision” on the road might be a metaphor for self-centered social behavior in general in Vietnam. Sometimes, I think, “tunnel vision” is just inexperience.

Still, there are certainly reasons to gripe. Because I spend most of my time in the capital, I sometimes classify certain people as “annoyin’ Hanoians.” These include jerks who drive too fast in residential areas, motorcyclists on cell phones and litterbugs. Why, I wonder, aren’t more Hanoians annoyed themselves by these annoyin’ Hanoians? How about a little civic pride?

Vietnam’s manic motoring – a Darwinian struggle that pits adaptability against brute force – is the first culture shock for many newcomers.

In my first days in Vietnam, my son and I were frightened when at rush hour a herd of motorcycles suddenly roared up behind us on a sidewalk. A sidewalk!

Over the passing weeks, absorbing and contemplating the cognitive dissonance, it struck me as oddly ironic that a nation trying to unshackle itself from central economic planning had such a laissez-faire attitude about traffic.

When my children attended Hanoi International School, the school’s principal and staff formed a security gauntlet at the entrance in the morning to prevent motorcyclists from plowing into the children.

I now understand why motorcyclists sometimes use the sidewalks – but why do so many pedestrians prefer to walk on the street even when a sidewalk is available? Often these are companions walking side by side.

I respect the chutzpah – the attitude that they, as human beings, have as much right to that piece of asphalt as any car, motorbike or bicycle. If somebody honks, they tend to ignore it. Similarly, student bicyclists in my neighborhood often ride four or five abreast.

Having scootered around Hanoi for about three years – earning a few scrapes along the way, learning by harsh experience – I can now proudly claim to have used the sidewalk to negotiate a traffic jam or two. (When in Hanoi, do as the Hanoians do.)

I’ve had reason to drive against the flow of traffic a few times. I do regret, however, that time when I frightened that pedestrian who didn’t see me coming after I made a wrong turn. I could accuse her of “tunnel vision,” perhaps, but that seems unfair.

Annoyin’ Hanoians sometimes appear wherever there’s a queue. The other day, I took my place at the rear of a long line for movie tickets at a mall cinema. The queue stretched past the ropes strung to ensure first-come, first-served order.

Soon there were five or six other people behind me. As I approached the ropes, I noticed a man casually lurking. I eyeballed him, suspecting that he might sidle in if I became distracted. He noticed my stare, hesitated – and gestured me forward.

I wasn’t seeking permission, jerk. Get in line.

Speaking of the cinema in Vietnam, I admit to getting a guilty pleasure from that advertisement that mocks the crude rural folk who talks loudly on cellphones during a movie. That ad would be deemed rude and politically incorrect in the U.S., but such denigration is tolerated here.

I don’t want to overstate these matters, because there is, of course, rude behavior all over the world. Perhaps the episodes of aggressive, annoying actions or thoughtless “tunnel vision” stand out because it’s a contrast to the polite, gracious norm.

Still, more public service ads might be a good idea.

[jackbl]

Without anomalies, Vietnam wouldn’t be the same: expat
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Editor’s Note: In response to our topic for discussion: “Is it hard to kick Vietnamese’s bad habits?” American expat Martha Kennedy says she can only smile at the “odd behaviors of the Vietnamese and enjoy just how incongruous they are to the rules” she learned while growing up in the U.S. The opinions expressed herein are those of the author who is currently an English teacher in the central city of Da Nang.

When asked if I’ve ever found the habits of Vietnamese people strange or offensive, I couldn’t help but laugh. My short answer is yes, I have – of course I have. Vietnam is not my home, so of course I have observed habits that I’ve found strange, out of the ordinary, and even a bit offensive. But after living in Vietnam for nearly 1.5 years, these habits are no longer so offensive to me: they are simply a part of the very visceral experience of living in Vietnam, as intrinsic to its culture as anything that might be viewed more positively by foreign eyes. Without such differences, Vietnam wouldn’t be the same. For aren’t the anomalies of a country as important, and as integral to its identity, as its celebrated aspects?

From my own perspective, I’ll list a few things that have made me look twice, and would certainly cause my mother to wince.

To be honest, men seem to be the main offenders. Hardly a day goes by without at least one sighting of public urination, with no noticeable attempt at hiding the dirty deed. Sure, this occasionally happens in the U.S., especially in rural areas, but usually men are seen standing in a patch of trees or a bush, not standing on the sidewalk in broad daylight. Men also seem to spit quite a lot, and with such bravado that I can’t help but assume they want to draw the attention of passers-by. I have dodged many times a spit ball flying my way while walking down crowded city streets.

Other habits aren’t specific to one gender. People rarely stifle their sneezes, and it almost seems they try to be as loud as possible. When I hear my neighbor across the street from me sneeze, I often mistake it for a scream. Also, there seems to be no stigma against picking one’s nose here – something that is quite taboo back home, unless you’re a child, and even then it’s heavily discouraged. Here, adults and children alike do so with gusto.

Despite my original shock at such habits, my attitude toward them has changed. I can’t help but feel there is a satisfaction that comes with doing what you want when you want, without caring who might see and what they might think. I know many Americans would likely jump at the chance to urinate or pick their nose in public if they knew no judgment would follow.

Let’s not forget the civilities that Vietnamese people adhere to, their unique ways of showing respect. When my students hand me a pen or piece of paper with both hands to show their subservience, I’m always struck with how formal it seems. Pointing is considered even ruder here than it is in Western culture and people go out of their way not do to it. And as a teacher, I’m shown more respect and admiration than I ever would be back home, where teaching is often looked down upon as a job for people who can’t do anything else.

Expats shouldn’t judge those whom they live amongst. Ultimately, we are guests in a foreign land, and our hosts are some of the most welcoming and warm people in the world. Here, I’ve had complete strangers invite me to their homes to meet their grandparents. I can't say the same for actual acquaintances back home. When I have gone home with Vietnamese friends, I’m treated as a special guest, asked questions about my life and America, and my plate and glass are never empty.

In the end, I can only smile at the (to my foreign eyes) odd behaviors of the Vietnamese and enjoy just how incongruous they are to the rules I learned while growing up in the US. And when I return home, I will miss Vietnam for all of its beauty and all of its anomalies, without which it wouldn’t be the same.

[jackbl]

On the origin of Vietnamese’s bad habits
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Regarding Vietnamese people’s undesirable habits and poor social etiquette, a local expert has made some attempt to explain the reasons.

Associate Professor Nguyen Minh Hoa, vice chair of the Ho Chi Minh City Association of Urban Planning and Development, stressed that though all peoples have their own undesirable habits and make fun of them sometimes, Vietnamese people tend to have more of them.

In recent years, these habits such as looting, rip-offs, public urinating and belching, littering, spitting, and disobeying traffic laws have even got intensified.

According to Hoa, the first reason is the lack of a continuous historical heritage.

The handing down and cherishing of such a heritage is easily noticed among Japanese.

Though conflicts and wars were rife at any time, Japanese people have always tried to preserve desirable qualities, irrespective of who gave birth to them, including their enemies.

Qualities such as dignity, self-esteem, and loyalty, which were exclusive to revered classes in the old times including “shogun,” “daimyo” and “samurai,” later became the whole society’s asset, the professor noted.

That is an explanation for the “Japanese miracle,” which followed the tsunami on March 11, 2011, during which over 20,000 people were killed and missing.

Amidst the sheer devastation, there was no ravage, killing, or rape whatsoever. People tried their best to maintain their order in disorder.

“Meanwhile, in our country, many of our ethical and cultural values weren’t passed down as a treasure. The mere 1.8ha Thang Long Royal Citadel is home to overlapping cultural strata from up to four or five dynasties, who erased all or most of their preceding dynasties’ ideologies and culture after overthrowing one another,” Assoc. Prof. Hoa said.

The professor pointed to the mighty Tran Dynasty (1226–1400), who defeated Chinese invaders three times, as an example.

The dynasty’s architectural works were annihilated while its weighty tomes conveying the dynasty’s cultural, artistic and ideological values were wiped out.

“This may partly explain why our traditional values handed down to today’s generations are mostly fragments, not complete blocks,” Hoa concluded.

The professor also pointed out the fact that Vietnam did not go through certain historical forms such as slavery and capitalism may be the second reason for Vietnamese people’s undesirable habits.

“Vietnam is among the few countries which didn’t undergo such socio-economic forms in the history, which may explain why a number of Vietnamese people are law-defying citizens and poorly-disciplined, disloyal employees,” Hoa remarked.

Vietnam also did not undergo any complete production medium, which resulted in factions and a lack of social unity, and may account for difficulty in or hesitancy to teamwork as well as social divisions among a number of Vietnamese, he further explained.

The absence of preparedness for the market-oriented economy may be also to blame for Vietnamese people’s unwanted habits.

After some 20 years of destitution due to the U.S.’s embargo, economic crisis and government subsidy, the sudden switch to the market-oriented economy has left leaders and average people alike unprepared and bewildered.

“People then jostled against one another and trampled upon ethical codes to earn as much as they could. The wildness of the poverty-stricken times, the infancy of the market-oriented economy and negative elements from the global integration process were combined and sharpened the ‘distortion’ and ‘hideousness’ among certain people,” Hoa said.

The professor also underlined the inadequacy of the state management mechanism as the fourth reason.

Apart from certain accomplishments, government operations remain inadequate in several places, resulting in increasingly wider gaps between the rich and the poor, rampant corruption and misappropriation, miscarriages of justice, plummeting faith, and deepening grievances among locals, Hoa elaborated.

[jackbl]

Re: On the origin of Vietnamese’s bad habits
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Editor’s Note: Vietnamese-Canadian Huynh Anh Tuan has sent us his opinions in response to the story “On the origin of Vietnamese’s bad habits” published on April 21. The views expressed herein are his own.

The first reason that Prof. Hoa raised was the lack of continuity in the social and cultural development (lack of continuous heritage). Although Prof. Hoa pointed to a strong heritage displayed by Japanese, there is no proof that such heritage or lack of it is the reason behind the turmoil behaviors of Vietnamese.

Using a reverse reasoning with a couple of examples, the Chinese did have strong continuous heritage at many times in [their] history. Yet Chinese do display similar bad habits to Vietnamese’s like nose-picking, spitting in public, disobeying rules and laws, lack of respect for community facilities, avoid[ing] queuing, and many other poor habits in public. While Canada has only 150 years of celebrations, Canadians do have a very strong respect [for] whatever belongs to the public and communities.

They respect the cleanliness in public facilities [such] as public washrooms [and] common areas used by all. You hardly see a display of nose-picking/spitting in public. Rules of the road are mostly respected. Queuing is normal behavior when needed.

With the Canadian example, I want to point out that Canadians are comprised of heavy multicultural backgrounds, i.e. Canadians are people from all over the world, with different cultural and history background[s]. Yet when they come to Canada, they display a strong respect for what the Canadian society, laws, culture [have] to offer. They do not have the "Japanese desirable qualities" that Prof. Hoa raised but still they do not have the bad habits of Vietnamese and Chinese.

The second reason as explained by Prof. Hoa also tends to be too simplistic. Canada did not undergo such periods as described by Prof. Hoa: slavery [and] capitalism. Canada's laws are developed based on the benefits for the society as a whole. Even currently, we could describe Canada society rules as developed to benefit the society rather than any other groups: the sets of tax laws, the benefits that society provides to the poor or elderly, all work hand-in-hand. The richer pay more in taxes. The elderly get old-age benefits.

How to curb family violence?

Regarding [the] habits of using violence in the family or in society, Canada has laws dealing with such violence quite effectively: even a verbal threat of violence is not acceptable and would be dealt with seriously by the police services. This is to show that law-enforcement is also a very important contribution to the health of the society as a whole. So the second reason that Prof. Hoa raised is not too convincing.

As an example, in Vietnam, violence is easily resorted to solve issues in the family, at schools or out on the streets. In order to help with the elimination of such issues, we need to have programs to educate citizens that there are alternatives to violence. Awareness programs would be needed at every level of schooling, from daycare to university. Related education programs should be available for broadcast on TV, using many ways of propaganda (comedies, dramas, movies....).

At the same time, specific laws are needed to be applied strictly to cases where violence is involved. Even verbal threats of violence must be [taken] very serious and [considered] potentially a criminal offence and punished severely. In a society where the concept of "husband is king, wife is servant" seems to be the norm, changes to eliminate such concept is very challenging. [So is the elimination of] family violence.

Family violence often occurs in all walks of life: educated and less-educated, therefore the police services must be allowed by law to do their work when calls for help are logged. The elimination of corruption is also an important factor in the success of such programs: if the violator could use money to buy him or her out of trouble then the violation will certainly be repeated. It is no doubt that effective changes to human behavior is highly challenging. In order to have an environment where mutual respect is nurtured, governments at all levels must be involved to take the lead in initiating, guiding and acting as the "brain" to plan and to facilitate the successful implementation of related programs.

"Bad habits" do not just show up overnight. They have been entrenched for years, if not decades, from society turmoil, instability, poor conditions and neglect. Because of their public-related characteristics, it would take time for those bad habits to be "undone". Strong leadership and well-thought-out programs are also necessary. The society leaders - like ministries of social development, education, justice, public safety - should have teams of researchers working together to develop long term strategies with the goal to reduce - if not eliminate - those undesired habits.

Some bad habits can also be blamed on the poor conditions of physical assets like poor infrastructure or poor roads. These "bad habits" would be cleared by themselves when the facilities/roads improve.

In the meantime, awareness of such bad habits can be expressed in schools, public banners, ads on TV, etc. so [as] to slowly program the citizens' mind to have stronger self-respect and respect for others.

[jackbl]

US veteran on Vietnamese’s bad habits
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Editor’s Note: With regard to our topic for discussion “Is it hard to kick Vietnamese’s bad habits?”, Tuoitrenews continues receiving stories from expats and foreign visitors. Among them is a piece by a U.S. veteran who regularly visits Vietnam. In his article, he says that it is an exaggeration to think that "bad habits" are everywhere in Vietnam, adding that every country has "habits" that might be unacceptable to foreigners. The writer wants to stay anonymous.

I first visited Vietnam in 1995. This visit opened my eyes to the history and beauty of Vietnam and its people, and I have subsequently visited this country many times after I retired from my regular job.

Now please allow me to express some personal thoughts and opinions concerning the topic for discussion in this column:

1. There is no doubt that there are many "habits" or "behaviors" in Vietnam today that would not be acceptable in the more developed countries. However, most of these habits will inevitably change as Vietnam continues to develop, and as more Vietnamese travel internationally. It is bound to happen. When my Vietnamese friends express their impatience about change in Vietnam, I always have to remind them that today's Vietnam started to change only after Doi Moi or Renovation [the name given to the economic reforms initiated in Vietnam in 1986], and that's less than 30 years ago. Only one generation. In that short time, so much change has occurred that it's almost unbelievable. In many ways, the rate of material change has been faster than even in the U.S. or Europe.

2. Of course, the easiest changes are the material changes: people have better clothing, housing (even in the countryside), food, cell phones, motorbikes or autos, even travel opportunities. I call these "hardware" changes since they are comparatively easy to make. The "software" changes (in other words, changes in attitude, culture, behavior, etc.) will take longer because these are changes in how people think. And "manners" and "habits" are in the "software" of many Vietnamese people, and so it will take more than one generation to bring significant changes.

3. But it is an exaggeration to think that "bad habits" are everywhere in Vietnam. I have met many, many Vietnamese (including in the countryside) who are every bit as polite and well-mannered as people elsewhere. And many Vietnamese people themselves recognize and disapprove of "bad habits." I will always remember talking with a tour guide on a boat during a visit to Ha Long Bay some years ago. I asked him about the tour business, and I learned that the Chinese are the biggest group of tourists to Vietnam. I thought that meant good business for the tourist industry, but he said that they didn't like dealing with Chinese tourists, because of their "bad habits" like spitting, tossing rubbish into the bay, rudeness, etc.

4. One theory I've heard is that these "bad habits" are not part of Vietnamese culture, but are in fact new behavior brought out by the rapid growth of Vietnam. I have heard this many times from people in Hanoi who are from the "old families" who have lived in the city for many generations. They told me that in old Vietnam, people behaved politely and well, spoke softly, etc. But after the war, public behavior deteriorated with the huge influx of people coming into the cities, causing great crowding and stress, traffic jams unheard of before, and more competition for food and services, etc. As this population pressure is smoothed out in the future, behavior will hopefully go back to something more "normal," according to this theory.

5. One thing to keep in mind is that every country has "habits" that might be unacceptable to foreigners. I have seen that the French don't seem to queue and Parisians are unwelcoming to foreigners; I'm told the Arabs belch at the dinner table; I have been shoved aside by Chinese swarming around ticket counters, etc., etc. So it's really the worst kind of arrogance and condescension for a foreigner to go to another country and make public pronouncements about what kinds of behavior he finds unacceptable. He should simply avoid those situations he doesn't like and keep his opinions to himself – or just express them to those other foreigners who live in those self-contained, segregated "expat bubbles."

I think the topic is interesting and the most persuasive opinions would be from other Vietnamese, including those who have traveled and seen the world, or even from the government through educational campaigns (as the Chinese government did before the Beijing Olympics, or what the French government is trying to do to make the Parisian waiters less rude).

[jackbl]

Vietnam: where the unexpected is normal
================================================== ======
You knew when sitting next to the fireplace in freezing, wherever, that booking a trip to Vietnam would be an adventure, right? That it wasn’t Thailand – all dancing girls and choking in the back of the Tuk-tuk. That it wasn’t Singapore, all glistening steel and mega-hotels. That it wasn’t Malaysia, all bargain shopping and street curry. Just checking…

Straight off the airplane in Ho Chi Minh City or Hanoi you can just feel it’s all different. The chaos, the noise. The Vietnamese busily chat on the phone even as the plane has just landed and is still rolling towards the terminal. They cart five huge parcels for their auntie’s shop dangerously balanced on their airport trolleys, rushing for the exit. It’s an endless, non-stop "I’m doing my own thing’ in a human cloud of confusion and energy. Welcome to Vietnam!

So you do the tours in both major cities. Yes, good, lovely, hang on honey! I want a picture of you in front of that tiny man with the ice-cream hat! You did the cyclo, the museums, the lake, the river and bought something for your loved ones back home, which you’re going to carry around Vietnam for the next two weeks unless the receptionist’s cousin’s uncle’s shipping business can help you out.

I often wonder about some tourists. It seems like they wander around with a checklist in their heads. Souvenirs – checked. Tried to negotiate with local people for a ride around town – done it. Visited every place the Lonely Planet said I should see – yep. Maybe it’s just me, I do live here after all so perhaps I’m a little bit too harsh towards tourists. I know a tourist’s time is short and often exhausting. It makes me wonder why we call modern tourism a ‘holiday’ because it seems more like the pain of paying a traffic fine.

You’re getting tired and feel the need to get out of the big cities. It’s all too busy and reminds you of why you needed a holiday from your busy world in the first place. A great holiday is full of surprises.

It’s time to go inland or upland or to the sea. Open Lonely Planet to page whatever and spend the morning reading it out aloud to your partner. Have a small argument – decide on somewhere. Terrific! With any luck, you’ve ended up in my neck of the woods – central Vietnam.

I’m not sure whether you’d agree to my proposition that the trick to enjoying Vietnam is to look beyond the traffic and the quick pace of life. Look at what people are doing, how they do it, how the Vietnamese passion for living plays out right in front of your eyes. The Vietnamese living room is the street. The sofa is the motorbike. The desk, office or kitchen is anywhere handy and the television is chatting with your neighbors.

Here in the center there are a thousand places to visit – sure, not that accessible but doable. A lot of tourists grab the opportunity to ride bicycles in Hoi An and some of the smaller places but you could also just take a boat for the day and throw the travel guide book into the harbor while you’re at it…

Life outside the cities is full of surprises, little unexpected things.

Even as I’m writing this, a gecko, that small lizard with the fat, round fingers that walks up the walls and gobbles up the flies is slowly crawling across the TV screen in the bar where I’m sitting. You never know what will happen that’s nice and usually not dangerous!

Sure, do the sights, but why not get your horoscope read by the local Sharman? Get a decent map and walk for a few blocks – yes, walk - check how people live for all the world to see – the local hairdresser with a lamp on her head picking out ear wax. Check out the dude down the street welding metal in open toe sandals or the motorbike seat tailors plying their trade between the mobile phone shops.

Shopping is a scream in the local shops. Prepare to be pushed, shoved, nudged and generally treated like a nuisance! It’s even better fun trying to tell the difference between the blue 20,000 dong note and the half million dong note in the dark lighting of a local café. Gotta watch that one! Check your notes by the way and learn to give the cashiers the faded old notes but don’t be surprised if they refuse to take them and demand fresh money!

I love watching the farmers cart pigs in baskets, stacked four or five high on an old Honda cub. I also like seeing the electricity guys carrying a four meter bamboo ladder across four lanes of traffic. Even better is when you have four of these guys in the middle of an intersection – no warning gear – three holding the ladder and the fourth swaying back and forth at the top wiring up festival lights. Cirque de Soleil, you guys should visit Vietnam and take notes!

A motorbike tour is a must-do. Either ride it yourself or get a guide and driver. There’s nothing quite like having to swerve around a tourist bus, a taxi, and cows crossing the street. You can marvel at the dogs sleeping in the street with the same disregard for personal safety as their owners. The most fun is scratching your head trying to figure out why someone decided to extend their wedding venue to part of the road at peak hour. Wedding music is the only sound I know of that can drown out a construction truck horn! You can’t see or experience this stuff in the big cities.

Unpredictable, unexpected, “what just happened?” moments are all around you in central Vietnam.

For the average Vietnamese in the countryside, foreigners are just obstacles to go around. We’re part of the background as they focus on the need to make a living or chill out over card games in ‘a million’ bamboo shack coffee shops.

It’s quite easy to get up close and see what they do. A local market outside any main town is a real revelation, a blast from the past; the way humans have haggled and bartered for centuries in between gossip and hard bargaining. Have you ever heard a thousand women shopping at the same time? Do buy some fruit, you’ll quickly discover the taste different to what chemical preservation is in a modern supermarket.

Above all, get to the mountains and look back at the beach. Central Vietnam has some of the best landscapes in the world. The best time to go is on a sunny day after a rainy night. It clears the sand and dust so you can see for miles. Yet again, be ready for anything. There are trucks rolling around tight corners, ducks crossing the street, wild buffalo staring you down, and views to die for. Go slowly, you’ll see sudden glimpses of sparkling rivers hidden between sharp valleys and cool clouds floating around like daydreams.

Someone once said that the best way to travel is just to pick a direction and go. Vietnam is waiting to surprise you at every turn, corner, and way. Take it all in stride and remember that’s why you came here – for the unexpected.

[paolohen]

Can someone help me translate this to Viet?

my intended message: I have book a hotel room for one night, can you spend a night with me in the hotel? If you decided to take leave on that day, then I can bring u tour around Singapore.

Thanks bro!

[KangTuo]

Originally Posted by paolohen

Can someone help me translate this to Viet?

my intended message: I have book a hotel room for one night, can you spend a night with me in the hotel? If you decided to take leave on that day, then I can bring u tour around Singapore.

Thanks bro!

Tôi đã đặt phòng khách sạn cho một đêm, bạn có thể dành một đêm với tôi trong khách sạn? Nếu bạn quyết định đi lại vào ngày hôm đó, sau đó tôi có thể mang lại cho bạn lưu diễn vòng quanh Singapore.

Thank you google translate...
Seems accurate

[Hurricane88]

Originally Posted by KangTuo

Tôi đã đặt phòng khách sạn cho một đêm, bạn có thể dành một đêm với tôi trong khách sạn? Nếu bạn quyết định đi lại vào ngày hôm đó, sau đó tôi có thể mang lại cho bạn lưu diễn vòng quanh Singapore.

Thank you google translate...
Seems accurate

replace toi and ban with anh and em...otherwise she will never spend the nite with you...hahah...

[paolohen]

Thank you thank you!!